There are 12 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: OT: Latex Help
From: taliesin the storyteller
1b. Re: OT: Latex Help
From: Chris Bates
2a. Re: Gmane
From: Philippe Debar
2b. Re: Gmane
From: Philip Newton
2c. Re: Gmane
From: H. S. Teoh
3. Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.2 (repost #1)
From: Henrik Theiling
4a. Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.1 (repost #1)
From: Eugene Oh
4b. Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.1 (repost #1)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5a. Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5b. Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1)
From: Lars Finsen
5c. Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1)
From: Henrik Theiling
5d. Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1)
From: Remi Villatel
Messages
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1a. Re: OT: Latex Help
Posted by: "taliesin the storyteller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2006 2:57 am (PDT)
* Chris Bates said on 2006-09-08 10:19:16 +0200
> After experimentation, I've found that including longtable before gb4e
> solves the problem. :) Thanks for your help... although these problems
> with Latex seem to speak of a larger problem I have with its design: the
> lack of encapsulation in general. For instance, gb4e does interlinears:
> why does it affect the way text is rendered outside of the interlinears?
> And why can packages interfere with each other to such an extent? Don't
> get me wrong, I think a lot about Latex is great, it's just that (from a
> user's point of view) its design seems to betray a serious lack of
> consideration for restricting the scope of changes. A bit like a
> programming language that makes it difficult to declare local variables
> (thus forcing you to have all data as global)... or a programming
> language that doesn't allow some module or class to override default
> behavoir *only within its own code* rather than globally.
> Of course, not having looked at the code I know nothing about how its
> internals work.
There is only one scope, so any macro you make is used in the same
namespace. And yes, LaTex is a set of macros written on top of Tex, and
Tex is also an old, oldschool language. It was written for one person
and one person only: Donald Knuth. It's an accident of history that
other people started using Tex (it filled a need probably) and another
that Latex was kludged in on top of it.
t.
Messages in this topic (2)
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1b. Re: OT: Latex Help
Posted by: "Chris Bates" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2006 3:28 am (PDT)
>There is only one scope, so any macro you make is used in the same
>namespace. And yes, LaTex is a set of macros written on top of Tex, and
>Tex is also an old, oldschool language. It was written for one person
>and one person only: Donald Knuth. It's an accident of history that
>other people started using Tex (it filled a need probably) and another
>that Latex was kludged in on top of it.
>
>
I wonder if anyone has taken the specifications for Tex and tried to
make an improved version by adding stuff like variable scope and
namespaces etc. And then rewriting the standard Latex packages to run on
top of Improved-TEX.
Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: Gmane
Posted by: "Philippe Debar" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2006 5:37 am (PDT)
li_sasxsek wrote:
> li [H. S. Teoh] mi tulis la
> > Personally, I lean against doing this, but I'll let Henrik
> > and the rest
> > of the list speak up. I don't like the idea of gateways in
> > general, and
> > we've had bad experiences in the past with Yahoo! groups.
>
> The Yahoo mirror does have some very annoying features.
Curious. I found the listserv.brown.edu web interface and I thought the list
was hosted there. Why another interface ? For file hosting and other
associated services ?
> > > As I find newsgroup more usable than mailing lists,
> > > I would be interested to be able to access Conlang
> > > in this way.
> >
> > Interesting. I find both equally usable. But then again, I do use
> > mutt-ng with NNTP support.
>
> I'd much prefer that all of these be taken over to Usenet. It's a
> shame alt.language.artificial doesn't get used much anymore.
I prefer newsgroups to mailing list and web interfaces as I can quickly
download what I want when I want and get a nice threaded view of things,
without burdening my inbox.
I'll wait some more before acting. Any other reaction to my Gmane proposal ?
By the way, Gmane also offer importation of archives.
Sincerely,
--
Philippe
Messages in this topic (6)
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2b. Re: Gmane
Posted by: "Philip Newton" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2006 2:13 pm (PDT)
On 9/8/06, Philippe Debar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> li_sasxsek wrote:
> > li [H. S. Teoh] mi tulis la
> > > I don't like the idea of gateways in general, and
> > > we've had bad experiences in the past with Yahoo! groups.
> >
> > The Yahoo mirror does have some very annoying features.
>
> Curious. I found the listserv.brown.edu web interface and I thought the list
> was hosted there. Why another interface ? For file hosting and other
> associated services ?
Historical reasons, as far as I know. I think the gateway used to be
to eGroups or Onelist or some other such name, which was apparently a
decent enough service, but was bought out by Yahoo at some point.
> I'll wait some more before acting. Any other reaction to my Gmane proposal ?
I use Gmane for a couple of other mailing lists and rather like it.
I probably wouldn't use Gmane for CONLANG-L myself but wouldn't mind
if a mirror existed there. But I can't speak for the group.
Cheers,
--
Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Messages in this topic (6)
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2c. Re: Gmane
Posted by: "H. S. Teoh" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Sep 9, 2006 1:02 am (PDT)
On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 08:11:50AM -0400, Philippe Debar wrote:
[...]
> I prefer newsgroups to mailing list and web interfaces as I can
> quickly download what I want when I want and get a nice threaded view
> of things, without burdening my inbox.
[...]
I use a fully threaded mailer[1] and I get my mail directly off a
caching SMTP server with no size limit (and no lame web interfaces). But
then my setup can hardly be called typical, so YMMV.
[1] IMAO, any mailer that isn't capable of threading is fundamentally
broken. Browsing Usenet without (full) threading is also fundamentally
broken. *cough*GoogleGroups*cough*
T
--
The best compiler is between your ears. -- Michael Abrash
Messages in this topic (6)
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3. Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.2 (repost #1)
Posted by: "Henrik Theiling" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2006 5:45 am (PDT)
Hi!
Last week's sentences are still not complete, but to keep pace
I will post it now:
forest þörstur < *forestis
mushroom þungur < fungus
to look for kirkir < *circare
to find (after searching) dérkæprir < discooperire
base, bottom þundur < fundus
moss muskur < muscus
basket kist < cista
pine needle pínurökur < pinus + acus
each öður < omnis
always seppir < semper
Some sentences:
Þörstursa er ekki. The forest is over there.
(ekki < ecce hic)
Já ama þungar. I like mushrooms very much!
(já < ego)
(ama < amo)
Ekki er né muskur að þundsu There is no moss on the base
örbrur sir. of that tree.
(örbrur < *arburis < arboris)
Póntu þungsu í kistsa. Put the mushroom in the basket.
Sá er þéfnsa tög dú já onn þung. That is the woman to whom I give
each of the mushrooms.
(þéfnsa < femina + ipsa)
**Henrik
Messages in this topic (8)
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4a. Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.1 (repost #1)
Posted by: "Eugene Oh" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2006 8:01 am (PDT)
Actually, in Chinese the compound is also "wolf-man": 狼人
2006/9/6, Eric Christopherson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Sep 4, 2006, at 5:19 PM, Henrik Theiling wrote:
>
> > Hi!
> >
> > Carsten Becker writes:
> >> ...
> >>>> 2. werewolf / lycanthrope of some variety
> >>
> >> ayvengaryo (lit. "wolf-man")
> >> ...
> >
> > Interesting. Did you have a particular reason to decide to reverse
> > the typical order for compounding? All the languages in which I know
> > the word 'werewolf' compound it as 'man-wolf'.
>
> There is an English word 'wolfman' (or 'wolf man') also. I'm not
> sure of its exact semantics or distribution, but it seems to occur
> most commonly in the context of old monster movies (including the one
> called "The Wolf Man").
>
> >
> > I always intuitionally thought 'wolf-man' would be more sensible, so I
> > wonder whether you thought the same.
>
> It's an interesting question -- is a werewolf a (wolf-like) type of
> human, or a (human-like) type of wolf?
>
> >
> > When translating it a few days ago, I still sticked to the order all
> > the other languages I know use.
> >
> > **Henrik
>
Messages in this topic (35)
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4b. Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.1 (repost #1)
Posted by: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2006 3:01 pm (PDT)
SASXSEK
1. birch (the tree)
betul (birch), betulxmaram (birch+tree)
2. werewolf / lycanthrope of some variety
vukxhuman (wolf+human)
4. to conquer
vik (conquer, win, be victorious)
5. motif
kihan (pattern)
Messages in this topic (35)
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5a. Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1)
Posted by: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2006 11:27 am (PDT)
> Vocab:
> 1. doctor / healer
saludife = salud ("health") + if (causative) + e (actor)
> 2. medicine
saludifik = salud ("health") + if (causative) + ik
(abstract)
saludifxlog = salud ("health") + if (causative) + log
("science")
> 3. ear
kurak
> 4. eye
nun
> 5. friend
lamare = lam ("like, love") + a (passive) + (r)e (actor)
> 6. itch and/or scratch
pik ("itch")
> 7. hurt / pain (the verb ... or not)
teq ("to ache")
> 8. diagnosis
problemxsuko = problem + suk ("seek") + o (manifestation,
result)
> 9. cure / heal
saludif = salud ("health") + if (causative/becoming)
> 10. ill
maladi = malad ("sick, ill") + i (adjective)
> Context:
>
> 1. She is my doctor.
lo saludife ju mo.
> 2. _That_ is _my_ medicine, and _this_ is yours.
to saludifus ju mo ka so saludifus ju fo.
> 3. She looked in their ears.
lo tuvid fuhinu kurak ju lo.
> 4. She looked in (or tested, or..) her (someone else's) eye.
lo tuvid fuhinu nun ju lo.
> 5. Our friends are ill.
lamare ju molo malad.
> 6. His scratch (the one on him) is worse than his scratch (the one
he
> caused on someone else unspecified).
> 7. Do y'all's heads hurt? / Do you guys have headaches?
ha kap ju fo teq.
> 8. His diagnosis (that he gave) is that she will get better.
lo problemxsuk fa lo sek ta to saludif.
he problem+seek then he say that that-one healthy+BECOME.
he troubleshot then he said that she will become healthy.
> 9. His diagnosis (for the disease he has) has a cure.
malado ju lo saludifxlik.
sick+MANIFESTATION of he health+CAUSE+able.
his sickness is curable.
> 9a. She will cure my friends.
lo fi saludif lamare ju mo.
> 10. I am not ill anymore.
lo ni si malad.
> Bonus Vocab (automatically from WordNet):
>
> - scrupulousness, n.
> conformity to high standards of ethics or excellence
hetis = het ("ethic") + is (intensifier)
> - nutate, v.
> rock, sway, or nod; usually involuntarily
?
Messages in this topic (5)
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5b. Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1)
Posted by: "Lars Finsen" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2006 1:25 pm (PDT)
Hi,
Pardon a silly question from a newcomer. What's this weekly vocab
thing? Are everybody invited to post words and phrases from their
languages corresponding to a selected list of English words and phrases?
Greetings,
LEF
Messages in this topic (5)
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5c. Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1)
Posted by: "Henrik Theiling" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2006 5:00 pm (PDT)
Hi!
Lars Finsen writes:
> Pardon a silly question from a newcomer. What's this weekly vocab
> thing? Are everybody invited to post words and phrases from their
> languages corresponding to a selected list of English words and
> phrases?
Short answer:
Exactly. :-)
Long answer:
The purpose is to give you a motivation of extending your conlang's
lexicon. For comparison of what other people came up with and for
inspirations of how to express the given concepts, you can post your
translations to the list.
**Henrik
Messages in this topic (5)
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5d. Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1)
Posted by: "Remi Villatel" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2006 9:58 pm (PDT)
On Friday 08 September 2006 06:01, Henrik Theiling wrote:
> > 1. doctor / healer
fētetiku [fEtetiku] = therapist
From: fēthtir [fEd.tiX] = body, physiological
> > 2. medicine
fēthterēke [fEd.teXEke] = science of the bodies, "physiology"
(From: fēthtir)
> > 3. ear
kiuçut [ki"uCut] = ear, hearing faculty, action of hearing
kiuçil [ki"ucCi4] = ears, action of listening
> > 4. eye
ratja [Xa.tja] = eye, sight faculty, action of seeing
ratas [Xatas] = eyes, action of looking
> > 5. friend
govilā [govi43] = friend, friendly
govili [govi4i] = comrade, child friend
govilu [govi4u] = adult friend
> > 6. itch and/or scratch
diçif [diCif] = wound (linear concept)
dōdiçif [dOdiCif] = scratch (smallest wound)
...
klidiçif [k4idiCif] = major injury (biggest wound)
> > 7. hurt / pain (the verb ... or not)
rilēevo [Xi4E"evo] = pain, painful
> > 8. diagnosis
frōjetu [fxOjetu] = diagnosis, literally: "told health"
From: frōji [fxOji] = health (good or bad health) (Linear concept)
Hence:
dafrōjetu [da.fxOjetu] = diagnosis of bad health
kufrōjetu [ku.fxOjetu] = diagnosis of good health
> > 9. cure / heal
bidifrā [bidi.fX3] = healing (action or state)
> > 10. ill
dafrōji [da.fxOji] = illness, ill
dafrōku [da.fxOku] = sick adult, ill
dafrōçi [da.fxOCi] = sick child, ill
(From: frōji)
------------------------------------------
*Note:* I use "thou" as a singular you but with the modern conjugation, and
I use the epicene neologisms "ey, em, eir" (he/she, him/her, his/her)
modelled on "they".
------------------------------------------
> > 1. She is my doctor.
kaje vure fētetiku tiyō'dja.
my.PROPRIETIVE EQUATIVE doctor IND+ATEMPORAL ey
= **Ey (always) behaves as my doctor.
Note: In Shaquelingua, you use proprietive quantifiers (inalienable
possession) to describe the relation in between people in "my/thy/etc
somebody".
> > 2. _That_ is _my_ medicine, and _this_ is yours.
tiyō : çi-keja giselje ; sibo ; ga-reja.
IND+ATMP : DISTANT-my medicine ; and ; CLOSE-thy.
= **Always: There (is) my medicine and here (is) thy(ne).
> > 3. She looked in their ears.
kādaço kiuçil lul, xe saeko ratas tē'dja.
DISTRIBUTIVE:their.PROPR ears ACQUISITIVE, some out-of look IND+PST ey.
= **Ey took a look out of (all) their ears.
> > 4. She looked in (or tested, or..) her (someone else's) eye.
çidajē ratja tir, be ratas tē'ga-dja.
DISTANT-eir.PROPR eye DOTATOVE, QUALITY looked IND+PST DISTANT-ey
= **Close-ey looked an eye of distant-em.
> > 5. Our friends are ill.
be fare dafrōji çakira teo govilā.
QUALITY EQUATIVE ill our.PROPR:PL IND+RETROSPECTIVE friend
= **Our friends have the quality "ill".
> > 6. His scratch (the one on him) is worse than his scratch (the one
> > he caused on someone else unspecified).
daju tē-çyā dōdiçif, daja teo gēdiçif.
eir.PROPR PST-DOTATIVE LINEAR:wound, eir.PROPR IND+RTR LINEAR:wound
= **(relative to) eir past-given (to someone else) smallest-wound, (there
is) eir currently small-wound.
The declensions and the gradation in the qualificatives is enough to express
the comparison.
= **The wound ey caused is small, the wound ey has is less small.
Note that in Shaquelingua, your actions belong to you the same way your arms
or legs do. (proprietive) You should better do no evil or you'll be forever
guilty.
saja tē-tula tōyā yareli.
self.PROPR PAST-DOTATIVE IND+ATMP.FUT evil
= **self's past-given always(future) evil.
= Any done evil is forever part of the doer.
> > 7. Do y'all's heads hurt? / Do you guys have headaches?
xe litvaj sule rilēevo reo'kā-raitā ?
some head EQUATIVE pain INTERROGATIVE DISTRIBUTIVE-you?
= **Do each of you feel pain of head?
> > 8. His diagnosis (that he gave) is that she will get better.
dajā frōjetu : be rike kufrōji tō'yō-dja.
> > 9. His diagnosis (for the disease he has) has a cure.
daju dafrōji, ja tiyō fētetvi.
eir.PROPR disease, INDEF.SG IND+ATMP therapy.
= **(relative to) eir disease, (there is) a therapy.
> > 9a. She will cure my friends.
kajirē govilā çōç, je bidifrā tō'dja.
my.PROPR:PL friend DOTATIVE, INDEF.SG healing IND+FUT ey.
= **Ey will give a healing to my friends.
> > 10. I am not ill anymore.
be fare dafrōji dātē'kja.
QUALITY EQUATIVE ill INGRESSIVE:IND+PST 1SG
= I have ceased to be ill.
--
==================
Remi Villatel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
==================
Messages in this topic (5)
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