There are 24 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Epioi (was: Phaistive Fun)
From: A. da Mek
1b. Re: Epioi (was: Phaistive Fun)
From: Ray Brown
1c. Re: Epioi (was: Phaistive Fun)
From: Philip Newton
1d. Re: Epioi (was: Phaistive Fun)
From: Ray Brown
2.1. Re: The Disk (was: Phaistive Fun)
From: Jörg Rhiemeier
3a. Re: 9D grammar
From: neo gu
4a. In a world where crackpottery rules (WAS: Phaistive Fun )
From: Gary Shannon
4b. Re: In a world where crackpottery rules (WAS: Phaistive Fun )
From: Matthew Turnbull
4c. Re: In a world where crackpottery rules (WAS: Phaistive Fun )
From: Adam Walker
4d. Re: In a world where crackpottery rules (WAS: Phaistive Fun )
From: Matthew Turnbull
4e. Re: In a world where crackpottery rules (WAS: Phaistive Fun )
From: Adam Walker
4f. Re: In a world where crackpottery rules (WAS: Phaistive Fun )
From: Gary Shannon
4g. Re: In a world where crackpottery rules (WAS: Phaistive Fun )
From: Sam Stutter
4h. Re: In a world where crackpottery rules (WAS: Phaistive Fun )
From: Larry Sulky
5.1. Re: Phaistive Fun (was: Grammatical gender)
From: Garth Wallace
5.2. Re: Phaistive Fun (was: Grammatical gender)
From: Adam Walker
5.3. Re: Phaistive Fun (was: Grammatical gender)
From: Garth Wallace
5.4. Re: Phaistive Fun (was: Grammatical gender)
From: Adam Walker
6a. Re: New Blog Post: Moten Part IV
From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
7a. Oh great joy!
From: BPJ
7b. Re: Oh great joy!
From: Adam Walker
7c. Re: Oh great joy!
From: David McCann
8a. Re: Ursula K. LeGuin's Kesh
From: eldin_raigmore
9.1. Re: embodiment in language
From: A. Mendes
Messages
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1a. Re: Epioi (was: Phaistive Fun)
Posted by: "A. da Mek" [email protected]
Date: Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:34 am ((PST))
> I am reminded of the 'Epioi' (aka Psychro ) inscription with its unique
features and the uncertainty of where it was 'discovered'. That has now
been shown to be a hoax.
http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Eteocretan/Epioi.html
I wonder if this would give some sense in Gad¨hi or Qegwisk.
EPIOI ZHÞANÞH ENETH PAR SIFAI
they would read as
¨h p j ºh j z ªh t¸ ¨ n t¸ ªh ¨h n ¨h t ªh p ¨ r s j p¸ ¨ j
The second word begins with "z ªh t¸", which was the name of the brother of
the forefather Gad¨hu.
But otherwise this looks more as Qegwisk than Gad¨hi.
PIE cognate would be
h1 p j h3 j g^h h2 d ' n d h2 h1 n h1 t h2 p ' r s j b ' j
So the first word could be locative, third and fourth feminine and the last
one genitive.
Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Re: Epioi (was: Phaistive Fun)
Posted by: "Ray Brown" [email protected]
Date: Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:37 am ((PST))
>> I am reminded of the 'Epioi' (aka Psychro ) inscription with its unique
> features and the uncertainty of where it was 'discovered'. That has now
> been shown to be a hoax.
> http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Eteocretan/Epioi.html
>
> I wonder if this would give some sense in Gad¨hi or Qegwisk.
> EPIOI ZHÞANÞH ENETH PAR SIFAI
> they would read as
> ¨h p j ºh j z ªh t¸ ¨ n t¸ ªh ¨h n ¨h t ªh p ¨ r s j p¸ ¨ j
> The second word begins with "z ªh t¸", which was the name of the brother
> of
> the forefather Gad¨hu.
> But otherwise this looks more as Qegwisk than Gad¨hi.
> PIE cognate would be
> h1 p j h3 j g^h h2 d ' n d h2 h1 n h1 t h2 p ' r s j b ' j
> So the first word could be locative, third and fourth feminine and the
> last
> one genitive.
>
But you've left out three 'Linear symbols' at the end! :)
A year or so back several conlang 'translations' of this inscriptions were
produced. I think it was somewhere March 1999.
Ray.
Messages in this topic (4)
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1c. Re: Epioi (was: Phaistive Fun)
Posted by: "Philip Newton" [email protected]
Date: Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:52 am ((PST))
On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 09:36, Ray Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
> A year or so back [...] I think it was somewhere March 1999.
What year do you think it is now, Ray? :)
Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <[email protected]>
Messages in this topic (4)
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1d. Re: Epioi (was: Phaistive Fun)
Posted by: "Ray Brown" [email protected]
Date: Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:06 am ((PST))
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 09:36, Ray Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
>> A year or so back [...] I think it was somewhere March 1999.
>
> What year do you think it is now, Ray? :)
2011 just - nearly 2012
Having discovered some 1999 archives, I should have changed 'a year or so'
to "a few years" - but I was only half way through my first dose of
caffeine for the day, i.e. brain not properly switched on ;)
Ray.
Messages in this topic (4)
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2.1. Re: The Disk (was: Phaistive Fun)
Posted by: "Jörg Rhiemeier" [email protected]
Date: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:30 am ((PST))
Hallo conlangers!
On Thursday 15 December 2011 11:22:12 Ray Brown wrote:
> > Hallo conlangers!
>
> > On Tuesday 13 December 2011 21:05:57 R A Brown wrote:
> [snip]
>
> >> I suspect it is a forgery.
> >
> > Surely, its provenience is uncertain, and it may be just as well
> > foreign to Crete as it could be native; alas, we don't know.
>
> If it is genuine, then IMO we should assume it's Cretan unless there is
> compelling evidence otherwise.
Sure. Claiming that it was "not from Crete" is worthless unless a
plausible foreign source is specified, and, alas, no other script,
neither in the Eastern Mediterranean nor elsewhere, corresponds to
the glyphs on the disc.
> > It
> > is not inconceivable that it is a forgery; but I'd rather not be
> > that rash with such a suspicion. It is all too often taken
> > recourse to by stubbornly conservative scholars (and crackpots!)
> > who are confronted with evidence that challenges their assumptions.
>
> It does not challenge any of of my assumptions concerning ancient Crete.
> Nor is it the uniqueness of the object itself that makes me suspicious.
I was not insinuating that you were of that sort of stubborn
scholars who explain uncomfortable evidence away as "hoaxes", as
many people do with UFO sightings (a can of worms best left unopened
here; let it be sufficient to say here that UFOs, like any "strange"
phenomenon, ought to be studied with an open mind in order to find
the most parsimonious explanation).
> But we know that Minoan Crete was a literate society, so one does wonder
> why the object is in a script otherwise unattested in Bronze Age Crete or,
> indeed, in any of the surrounding countries with which the Minoans traded.
Right. It may be an imitation of writing by an ingenious but
illiterate artisan, perhaps from Mainland Greece. I have heard of
folk art which uses letter-like patterns for purely decorative
purposes - those "letters" are not writing at all, but merely
imitate the visual impression of written text the people have seen
somewhere but did not understand what it was. The Phaistos Disc
could be such an object; if it is, no decipherment attempt will
ever yield anything but nonsense.
> But what has long puzzled me is why, having hit upon the idea of using
> movable type to impress a document on a clay tablet, the western world
> then had to wait another three millennia before Gutenberg hit upon the
> idea for doing the same on paper/parchment.
This is indeed remarkable, and may hint at the thing belonging
to a much later time than Minoan Crete. But sometimes, inventions
and discoveries get lost until they are repeated many years later.
> Also the details of its discovery in the palace at Phaistos is a little
> sketch and unclear.
>
> I am reminded of the 'Epioi' (aka Psychro ) inscription with its unique
> features and the uncertainty of where it was 'discovered'. That has now
> been shown to be a hoax.
> http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Eteocretan/Epioi.html
Which also has seen quite a few decipherment attempts before
(and probably also after) it had been shown to be spurious.
The story of the Phaistos Disc is quite similar so far, and it
may well be that it will end the same.
> What we badly need for the Phaistos Disk is a thermoluminescence test to
> date the Disk.
That would be helpful, and reveal a forgery if it is one.
> Ray.
>
> PS - At present away from home in South Wales and having to use
> "SquirrelMail."
>
> PPS - Glad the Phaistive Fun thread is going so well - I would join in
> more readily if I was back at home with my own mailer.
Sure. Satirizing crackpots is fun; but that thread is a bit too
noisy for my taste.
--
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
"Bêsel asa Êm, a Êm atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Êmel." - SiM 1:1
Messages in this topic (105)
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3a. Re: 9D grammar
Posted by: "neo gu" [email protected]
Date: Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:24 am ((PST))
I've added the vocabulary, what there is of it, and made some minor
changes.
http://qiihoskeh.conlang.org/cl/o/9D/9DIntro.htm
--
neogu
Messages in this topic (11)
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4a. In a world where crackpottery rules (WAS: Phaistive Fun )
Posted by: "Gary Shannon" [email protected]
Date: Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:39 am ((PST))
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Matthew Turnbull <[email protected]> wrote:
> This leads me to wonder, does anyone have crackpot theories in thier
> conworld, ....
Imagine an alternative world where academic rigor never really caught
on and crackpottery rules the day in the institutions of higher
education.
Now imagine the mirror opposite of Anglo-Saxon purism where English is
believed to be a Romance language and some 16th century nationalistic
drive to purify the language removed everything from English that was
not ultimately of Latin origin; grammar and vocabulary. We might have
something like "Uncleftish Beholding" through the looking glass. (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncleftish_Beholding )
So what, I wonder, would this "purified" Romance English look like?
--gary
Messages in this topic (8)
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4b. Re: In a world where crackpottery rules (WAS: Phaistive Fun )
Posted by: "Matthew Turnbull" [email protected]
Date: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:33 am ((PST))
I daresay quite different from uncleftish beholding. Perhaps something
like this?
Ay swi matthew turnbull, e ay vi en winnipeg
I don't think it could really be done though, so much of english's
base vocabulary remains germanic that it would be difficult to come to
terms with the amount of loans that needed undoing. Wheras one could
assume the same pronunciation for current words it would be difficult
to find the correct form for the "lost" words. What does essere look
like in english? Maybe just speak french with a thick english accent?
On 12/15/11, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Matthew Turnbull <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> This leads me to wonder, does anyone have crackpot theories in thier
>> conworld, ....
>
> Imagine an alternative world where academic rigor never really caught
> on and crackpottery rules the day in the institutions of higher
> education.
>
> Now imagine the mirror opposite of Anglo-Saxon purism where English is
> believed to be a Romance language and some 16th century nationalistic
> drive to purify the language removed everything from English that was
> not ultimately of Latin origin; grammar and vocabulary. We might have
> something like "Uncleftish Beholding" through the looking glass. (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncleftish_Beholding )
>
> So what, I wonder, would this "purified" Romance English look like?
>
> --gary
>
--
Sent from my mobile device
Messages in this topic (8)
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4c. Re: In a world where crackpottery rules (WAS: Phaistive Fun )
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:44 am ((PST))
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Matthew Turnbull <[email protected]>wrote:
> I daresay quite different from uncleftish beholding. Perhaps something
> like this?
>
> Ay swi matthew turnbull, e ay vi en winnipeg
>
> I don't think it could really be done though, so much of english's
> base vocabulary remains germanic that it would be difficult to come to
> terms with the amount of loans that needed undoing. Wheras one could
> assume the same pronunciation for current words it would be difficult
> to find the correct form for the "lost" words. What does essere look
> like in english? Maybe just speak french with a thick english accent?
>
> On 12/15/11, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Matthew Turnbull <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >> This leads me to wonder, does anyone have crackpot theories in thier
> >> conworld, ....
> >
> > Imagine an alternative world where academic rigor never really caught
> > on and crackpottery rules the day in the institutions of higher
> > education.
> >
> > Now imagine the mirror opposite of Anglo-Saxon purism where English is
> > believed to be a Romance language and some 16th century nationalistic
> > drive to purify the language removed everything from English that was
> > not ultimately of Latin origin; grammar and vocabulary. We might have
> > something like "Uncleftish Beholding" through the looking glass. (
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncleftish_Beholding )
> >
> > So what, I wonder, would this "purified" Romance English look like?
> >
> > --gary
> >
>
> --
> Sent from my mobile device
>
Nah. You just add -o to the ends of all the "English" words and viola!
I-o am-o Adam-o from-o Dallas-o. I worked for Lucy and it still works
today. Instant furner-speak! Just add -o!
Adam
Messages in this topic (8)
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4d. Re: In a world where crackpottery rules (WAS: Phaistive Fun )
Posted by: "Matthew Turnbull" [email protected]
Date: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:56 am ((PST))
I couldn't get past the Italian "Io amo adamo" for I love adamo, lol.
Not sure about fromo dallaso.
On 12/15/11, Adam Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Matthew Turnbull <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>> I daresay quite different from uncleftish beholding. Perhaps something
>> like this?
>>
>> Ay swi matthew turnbull, e ay vi en winnipeg
>>
>> I don't think it could really be done though, so much of english's
>> base vocabulary remains germanic that it would be difficult to come to
>> terms with the amount of loans that needed undoing. Wheras one could
>> assume the same pronunciation for current words it would be difficult
>> to find the correct form for the "lost" words. What does essere look
>> like in english? Maybe just speak french with a thick english accent?
>>
>> On 12/15/11, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Matthew Turnbull <[email protected]>
>> > wrote:
>> >> This leads me to wonder, does anyone have crackpot theories in thier
>> >> conworld, ....
>> >
>> > Imagine an alternative world where academic rigor never really caught
>> > on and crackpottery rules the day in the institutions of higher
>> > education.
>> >
>> > Now imagine the mirror opposite of Anglo-Saxon purism where English is
>> > believed to be a Romance language and some 16th century nationalistic
>> > drive to purify the language removed everything from English that was
>> > not ultimately of Latin origin; grammar and vocabulary. We might have
>> > something like "Uncleftish Beholding" through the looking glass. (
>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncleftish_Beholding )
>> >
>> > So what, I wonder, would this "purified" Romance English look like?
>> >
>> > --gary
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my mobile device
>>
>
>
> Nah. You just add -o to the ends of all the "English" words and viola!
> I-o am-o Adam-o from-o Dallas-o. I worked for Lucy and it still works
> today. Instant furner-speak! Just add -o!
>
> Adam
>
--
Sent from my mobile device
Messages in this topic (8)
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4e. Re: In a world where crackpottery rules (WAS: Phaistive Fun )
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:02 am ((PST))
Well, one should always love oneself, now shouldn't one?
Adam-o
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Matthew Turnbull <[email protected]>wrote:
> I couldn't get past the Italian "Io amo adamo" for I love adamo, lol.
> Not sure about fromo dallaso.
>
> On 12/15/11, Adam Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Matthew Turnbull <[email protected]
> >wrote:
> >
> >> I daresay quite different from uncleftish beholding. Perhaps something
> >> like this?
> >>
> >> Ay swi matthew turnbull, e ay vi en winnipeg
> >>
> >> I don't think it could really be done though, so much of english's
> >> base vocabulary remains germanic that it would be difficult to come to
> >> terms with the amount of loans that needed undoing. Wheras one could
> >> assume the same pronunciation for current words it would be difficult
> >> to find the correct form for the "lost" words. What does essere look
> >> like in english? Maybe just speak french with a thick english accent?
> >>
> >> On 12/15/11, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Matthew Turnbull <[email protected]
> >
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> This leads me to wonder, does anyone have crackpot theories in thier
> >> >> conworld, ....
> >> >
> >> > Imagine an alternative world where academic rigor never really caught
> >> > on and crackpottery rules the day in the institutions of higher
> >> > education.
> >> >
> >> > Now imagine the mirror opposite of Anglo-Saxon purism where English is
> >> > believed to be a Romance language and some 16th century nationalistic
> >> > drive to purify the language removed everything from English that was
> >> > not ultimately of Latin origin; grammar and vocabulary. We might have
> >> > something like "Uncleftish Beholding" through the looking glass. (
> >> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncleftish_Beholding )
> >> >
> >> > So what, I wonder, would this "purified" Romance English look like?
> >> >
> >> > --gary
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sent from my mobile device
> >>
> >
> >
> > Nah. You just add -o to the ends of all the "English" words and viola!
> > I-o am-o Adam-o from-o Dallas-o. I worked for Lucy and it still works
> > today. Instant furner-speak! Just add -o!
> >
> > Adam
> >
>
> --
> Sent from my mobile device
>
Messages in this topic (8)
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4f. Re: In a world where crackpottery rules (WAS: Phaistive Fun )
Posted by: "Gary Shannon" [email protected]
Date: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:18 am ((PST))
All the "glue" words should simply come from Latin, perhaps altered a
bit by age. And place names should probably end in "-ia" so it
wouldn't be "fromo Dallaso", but "de Dallasia quae est in Texasia."
--gary
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Matthew Turnbull <[email protected]> wrote:
> I couldn't get past the Italian "Io amo adamo" for I love adamo, lol.
> Not sure about fromo dallaso.
>
> On 12/15/11, Adam Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Matthew Turnbull <[email protected]>wrote:
Messages in this topic (8)
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4g. Re: In a world where crackpottery rules (WAS: Phaistive Fun )
Posted by: "Sam Stutter" [email protected]
Date: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:40 am ((PST))
On 15 Dec 2011, at 19:18, Gary Shannon wrote:
> All the "glue" words should simply come from Latin, perhaps altered a
> bit by age. And place names should probably end in "-ia" so it
> wouldn't be "fromo Dallaso", but "de Dallasia quae est in Texasia."
Sounds like James May's attempts at speaking Romanian to me :)
>Looks up etymology of "be"< Damn. Complicated. >Looks up etymology of "call"<
"I me appelle Adam (...) de Dallais, qua ist in Texasse"
I doubt *actual* linguistics would be of any use when attempting to construct
such a language. Like Matthew says, won't it just be French with a bad accent?
If you get the English of C16 and remove all the Anglo Saxon, you cut back to
Old French with some very limited Norse and Welsh loans. And then you cut the
Norse and Welsh out as well... Then progress through 500 years of changes...
That's going to be pretty much just "French" isn't it? Most of the "missing
words" already have French partners in English or form part of French origin
English words.
sea = mer-maid
bad = mal-evolent
green = verd-igris (vert de Grece)
> Well, one should always love oneself, now shouldn't one?
As long as one locks one's bedroom door first.
Messages in this topic (8)
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4h. Re: In a world where crackpottery rules (WAS: Phaistive Fun )
Posted by: "Larry Sulky" [email protected]
Date: Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:41 pm ((PST))
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Matthew Turnbull <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > This leads me to wonder, does anyone have crackpot theories in thier
> > conworld, ....
>
> Imagine an alternative world where academic rigor never really caught
> on and crackpottery rules the day in the institutions of higher
> education.
>
>
You mean like people insisting that evolution is just one theory among
several equally good competitors?
Messages in this topic (8)
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5.1. Re: Phaistive Fun (was: Grammatical gender)
Posted by: "Garth Wallace" [email protected]
Date: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:10 am ((PST))
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 10:31 PM, Wesley Parish
<[email protected]> wrote:
> You forgot to mention that Stonehenge and the menhirs constitute a
> Europe-wide silicon-chip computer. They used silicon chips back then
> because they didn't have potatoes as yet. And they never learnt how to fry
> them either.
>
> Finn and his brother really get up one's back!!!
>
> My sources (sauces?) are impeccably Atlantean! :)
>
> Wesley Parish
Yes, but what YOU forgot to mention is that the Phaistos Disc is in
fact an Identity Disc for one of the programs running on that
computer. If you looked at it inside the ancient Game Grid, it'd be
covered with glowy blue piping.
Messages in this topic (105)
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5.2. Re: Phaistive Fun (was: Grammatical gender)
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:24 am ((PST))
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Garth Wallace <[email protected]> wrote:
> Yes, but what YOU forgot to mention is that the Phaistos Disc is in
> fact an Identity Disc for one of the programs running on that
> computer. If you looked at it inside the ancient Game Grid, it'd be
> covered with glowy blue piping.
>
Glowy blue piping! How thaumicly entrancing. I feel all Tron-ish!
Adam
Messages in this topic (105)
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5.3. Re: Phaistive Fun (was: Grammatical gender)
Posted by: "Garth Wallace" [email protected]
Date: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:33 am ((PST))
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Adam Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Garth Wallace <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Yes, but what YOU forgot to mention is that the Phaistos Disc is in
>> fact an Identity Disc for one of the programs running on that
>> computer. If you looked at it inside the ancient Game Grid, it'd be
>> covered with glowy blue piping.
>>
> Glowy blue piping! How thaumicly entrancing. I feel all Tron-ish!
The Sumerian pantheon is a distorted cultural memory of the programs
populating the ancient Grid. It's a little-known fact that Enki bore a
surprisingly close resemblance to Bruce Boxleitner.
Messages in this topic (105)
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5.4. Re: Phaistive Fun (was: Grammatical gender)
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:41 am ((PST))
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Garth Wallace <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Adam Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Garth Wallace <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Yes, but what YOU forgot to mention is that the Phaistos Disc is in
> >> fact an Identity Disc for one of the programs running on that
> >> computer. If you looked at it inside the ancient Game Grid, it'd be
> >> covered with glowy blue piping.
> >>
> > Glowy blue piping! How thaumicly entrancing. I feel all Tron-ish!
>
> The Sumerian pantheon is a distorted cultural memory of the programs
> populating the ancient Grid. It's a little-known fact that Enki bore a
> surprisingly close resemblance to Bruce Boxleitner.
>
Just as Enkidu did to Denis Cyplenkov.
Adam
Messages in this topic (105)
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6a. Re: New Blog Post: Moten Part IV
Posted by: "Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets" [email protected]
Date: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:36 am ((PST))
On 12 December 2011 16:24, neo gu <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 14:29:34 +0100, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> 2nd attempt at replying
>
>
Well, it worked :P (sorry for the late reply, Real Life(TM) is beating me
to a pulp at the moment :( ).
>
> I haven't read all of it yet, just skimming the last 60%, but what I've
> read is very clear as well as long, especially considering the unusual
> grammar (using cases as aspects?). Maybe more later.
>
>
I hope you find a moment to give some comments (this is, by the way,
directed at everyone, especially those who complained that on-topic conlang
posts didn't get enough replies *wink* *wink*). I'm curious to hear what
people think of the verbal system, and especially if they know of ANADEW or
ACADEW cases :) .
--
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
Messages in this topic (3)
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7a. Oh great joy!
Posted by: "BPJ" [email protected]
Date: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:41 am ((PST))
I just stuffed together the contents of two old
cardboard folders with conlang/conculture papers
because I urgently needed a file for something, and out
fell a CD disk with conlang stuff, including a version
of my old Sohlob vocabulary as an .xls file. Alas I can
easily see that this version is a year or two older
than the last version which I lost to file lock-in --
it isn't even converted from the ASCII-based
transcription to the Latin-1 based![^1] (I suspect this
file was made as part of just that conversion) --, but
this can at least be opened with software I still
possess! I've already backed it up as .ods and .csv.
Now I must 'only' find time to modernize it and work
seven years' or so worth of work, spread around a mass
of text files and paperwork, into it, in parallel with
similar work on Rhodrese vocabulary... Conlang revival!
BTW does anyone know if anything special is required to
convert a 'Latin-1' .xls file to a UTF-8 .ods file with
OpenOffice? Does the conversion happen automagically
when saving as a current version .ods, or will I have
to go through a .csv version which I convert with
appropriate tools?
/bpj
[^1]: I can't believe now I put up with using {q} for
/Å/ in Kijeb but for /Ê/ in the daughter languages.
Back when you simply *had* to put up with such! :-)
For the daughter languages the Latin-1
transcription is still valid, entitywise: I still
use {c ç j æ e} for /tÉ É dÊ æ ɨ/ and feel no urge
to change a settled habit. I have considered
introducing {Å} instead of {hl} for /ɬ/ but what
then do with {hm hn hng}, not to mention {hr}? And
it still may be a good idea to be able to spell
"Sohlob" in all-ASCII!
Messages in this topic (3)
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7b. Re: Oh great joy!
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:06 pm ((PST))
Congratulations. I know what a relief that can be having recently
rediscovered notes on several long~forgotten projects. Now if I could
just find my Graavgaaln dictionary...
On 12/15/11, BPJ <[email protected]> wrote:
> I just stuffed together the contents of two old
> cardboard folders with conlang/conculture papers
> because I urgently needed a file for something, and out
> fell a CD disk with conlang stuff, including a version
> of my old Sohlob vocabulary as an .xls file. Alas I can
> easily see that this version is a year or two older
> than the last version which I lost to file lock-in --
> it isn't even converted from the ASCII-based
> transcription to the Latin-1 based![^1] (I suspect this
> file was made as part of just that conversion) --, but
> this can at least be opened with software I still
> possess! I've already backed it up as .ods and .csv.
> Now I must 'only' find time to modernize it and work
> seven years' or so worth of work, spread around a mass
> of text files and paperwork, into it, in parallel with
> similar work on Rhodrese vocabulary... Conlang revival!
>
> BTW does anyone know if anything special is required to
> convert a 'Latin-1' .xls file to a UTF-8 .ods file with
> OpenOffice? Does the conversion happen automagically
> when saving as a current version .ods, or will I have
> to go through a .csv version which I convert with
> appropriate tools?
>
> /bpj
>
> [^1]: I can't believe now I put up with using {q} for
> /Å/ in Kijeb but for /Ê/ in the daughter languages.
> Back when you simply *had* to put up with such! :-)
>
> For the daughter languages the Latin-1
> transcription is still valid, entitywise: I still
> use {c ç j æ e} for /tÉ É dÊ æ ɨ/ and feel no urge
> to change a settled habit. I have considered
> introducing {Å} instead of {hl} for /ɬ/ but what
> then do with {hm hn hng}, not to mention {hr}? And
> it still may be a good idea to be able to spell
> "Sohlob" in all-ASCII!
>
Messages in this topic (3)
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7c. Re: Oh great joy!
Posted by: "David McCann" [email protected]
Date: Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:05 pm ((PST))
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 20:41:06 +0100
BPJ <[email protected]> wrote:
> BTW does anyone know if anything special is required to
> convert a 'Latin-1' .xls file to a UTF-8 .ods file with
> OpenOffice? Does the conversion happen automagically
> when saving as a current version .ods, or will I have
> to go through a .csv version which I convert with
> appropriate tools?
If it's a real (ISO) Latin-1, there's no problem because that's a
subset of Unicode. If it's the Microsoft version of Latin-1, then "šžÅ"
and true quotation marks will map to control codes. You can try
loading, but if there are problems use
iconv -f WINDOWS-1252 -t UTF8 inputfile
(unless it's DOS Latin-1, which is 850).
Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. Re: Ursula K. LeGuin's Kesh
Posted by: "eldin_raigmore" [email protected]
Date: Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:44 pm ((PST))
Congratulations, Michael Everson!
And, hooray for us fans, Amanda Babcock Furrow!
--- In [email protected], Amanda Babcock Furrow <langs@...> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Dec 05, 2011 at 07:52:28AM +0000, Michael Everson wrote:
>
> > I wrote Ursula a letter in Kesh once, and had a postcard back from her in
> > Kesh. Subsequently I met her at a poetry reading in Portland; I introduced
> > myself, and she narrowed her eyes and said "You... made me go to my
> > dictionaries!"
>
> ...so there ARE dictionaries! :)
>
> I see the University of Oregon is collecting her papers. I wonder if there
> is Kesh stuff there yet...
>
> tylakèhlpë'fö,
> Amanda
>
Messages in this topic (6)
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9.1. Re: embodiment in language
Posted by: "A. Mendes" [email protected]
Date: Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:36 pm ((PST))
I really appriciate this. I would love to try and encorporate a
belief/action link within Umu. It's amazing that Cree has this distinction
and it probably had real effects upon the Cree culture.
I though it interesting Sam's definition of grace vs. the translator's and
think also here there is culture at play.
As an ex-pat, observing cultural norms comes with the territory. For
example, the detatched reservedness considered polite in the UK is
considered down-right rude in South America.
Or, for instance, when my old flatmate and I would argue. He would lay on
the "politest" of insults, inkeeping with his Brittish roots, and the
American in me would reply with something like, "Mother-fucker, if you was
that shit to me again, we're gonna have a problem."
Needless to say, we didn't argue well together because each of us was
breaking the other's "argument protocall". It actually took a third party
(from yet another country) to point this out to us.
To him, the winner of the agrument is the more "graceful" (Sam's graceful).
To me, the entire approach was cowardly and distainful.
But back to belief, I'm a fan of Karen Armstrong and her attempts to
restore compassion to the center of religion and morality. She claims that
all religious doctrines are meant to be calls to action and only understood
when put into practive.
How we equate religion with "believing things" would have been foreign and
tortured to our religious ancestors. I like how Cree deals with this.
I'll have to think of a way to bring this alive in my conlang.
On Dec 13, 2011 11:44 AM, "Dale McCreery" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I've been doing some biblical reading in Cree lately and was struck by the
> level to which the language embodies what in English would be more
> abstract concepts - for example, in translating the concept of "have pity
> on X" there are two possible verbs, kitimaakeyimew, and kitmaakinew - the
> first one implying a mental action, and the second one implying physical,
> specifically, the hand. In the texts I was reading the embodied version of
> many many words was always chosen over the purely mental one, giving the
> statements a very existential quality, linking belief to action.
>
> The very fact that the language tends to specifically mention parts of the
> body in verbs like this gives it a grounded sense, as opposed to a
> language like English that is far more abstract, allowing for more
> inaction... for example compare the English word Grace, with Cree
> kisitootaakewin - roughly - doing-kindness-to-people-edness, or school to
> kiskinohamaatowikamik, roughly, a place where you learn in a reciprocal,
> benefactive, hands-on way.
>
> I'm not particularly trying to make a Sapir/Whorfian argument here, but I
> am pointing out the potential for creating a language that ties beliefs to
> actions in a very visceral way, with a narrative culture that demands
> putting your "body where your mouth is".
>
> So - to phrase this as a question, on a continuum between favouring a
> metaphysical acontextual world view and an embodied existential one, where
> do your languages find themselves?
>
> -muskwatch-
>
Messages in this topic (105)
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