There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1.1. Re: Articles
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
1.2. Re: Articles
From: Michael Everson
1.3. Re: Articles
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
1.4. Re: Articles
From: Roger Mills
1.5. Re: Articles
From: Roger Mills
1.6. Re: Articles
From: Gary Shannon
1.7. Re: Articles
From: Adam Walker
1.8. Re: Articles
From: R A Brown
1.9. Re: Articles
From: Padraic Brown
1.10. Re: Articles
From: Arnt Richard Johansen
1.11. Re: Articles
From: Koppa Dasao
1.12. Re: Articles
From: Ph. D.
1.13. Re: Articles
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
1.14. Re: Articles
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
1.15. Re: Articles
From: Philip Newton
1.16. Re: Articles
From: Padraic Brown
1.17. Re: Articles
From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
1.18. Re: Articles
From: Padraic Brown
2. Gendered Nouns
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
3.1. Re: New Year's Thoughts
From: Charlie Brickner
4a. Sironu Verbs
From: J. Snow
4b. Re: Sironu Verbs
From: Larry Sulky
4c. Re: Sironu Verbs
From: Patrick Dunn
5a. An interesting resource for Conlangers
From: Gary Shannon
5b. Re: An interesting resource for Conlangers
From: MorphemeAddict
Messages
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1.1. Re: Articles
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:12 am ((PST))
What are personal articles?
Follow me on twitter
www.twitter.com/greenmellissa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Cyrus" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 6:12 AM
Subject: Re: Articles
> Catalan also has personal articles that go before names: en Pere = (the)
> Peter
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 5:13 AM, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Jim Henry <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>> ---
>>>
>>> Some languages (e.g. French) also have partitive articles, which if I
>>> understand correctly, are used with mass nouns while the definite and
>>> indefinite articles are used with count nouns.
>>
>> Then there's the Spanish article "lo" which is used before an
>> adjective to let you use it as a noun: lo importante = the important
>> (thing); lo difícil = the difficult (thing).
>>
>> --gary
Messages in this topic (151)
________________________________________________________________________
1.2. Re: Articles
Posted by: "Michael Everson" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:21 am ((PST))
On 12 Jan 2012, at 15:12, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews wrote:
> What are personal articles?
In Volapük, the article "el" is pretty much never used except before
unassimilated names of people, though it's extended to named objects like
Sputnik.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
Messages in this topic (151)
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1.3. Re: Articles
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:26 am ((PST))
That's cool.I can't resist, I have to use it.
Follow me on twitter
www.twitter.com/greenmellissa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Everson" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: Articles
> On 12 Jan 2012, at 15:12, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews wrote:
>
>> What are personal articles?
>
> In Volapük, the article "el" is pretty much never used except before
> unassimilated names of people, though it's extended to named objects like
> Sputnik.
>
> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
Messages in this topic (151)
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1.4. Re: Articles
Posted by: "Roger Mills" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:31 am ((PST))
On 12 Jan 2012, at 15:12, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews wrote:
> What are personal articles?
Some Malayo-Polynesian langs. have articles that are used only before personal
names (not in direct address)--- Malay/Indo. si Ali, Bugis i Husen (I think
there's a feminine version too but don't remember offhand). Indo. _si_ at least
can also be used with names of pets-- si putih "'whitey" (dog's name)
Messages in this topic (151)
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1.5. Re: Articles
Posted by: "Roger Mills" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:36 am ((PST))
> On 12 Jan 2012, at 15:12, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews wrote:
>
>> What are personal articles?
>
Forgot to mention-- in English we also do it, on occasion-- The Donald (Mr.
Trump)
Opera divas are often referred to with the Italian fem. article-- Maria Callas
was always La Callas
Messages in this topic (151)
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1.6. Re: Articles
Posted by: "Gary Shannon" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:52 am ((PST))
My conlang ai Basata used the personal article "ai" to turn any word
into a proper name. Thus "rose" is the noun referring to the flower
while "ai Rose" is a person's name.
http://fiziwig.com/conlang/basata/grammar.html
--gary
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 7:12 AM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
<[email protected]> wrote:
> What are personal articles?
>
>
>
> Follow me on twitter
>
>
> www.twitter.com/greenmellissa
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Cyrus" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 6:12 AM
> Subject: Re: Articles
>
>
>
>> Catalan also has personal articles that go before names: en Pere = (the)
>> Peter
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 5:13 AM, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Jim Henry <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ---
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Some languages (e.g. French) also have partitive articles, which if I
>>>> understand correctly, are used with mass nouns while the definite and
>>>> indefinite articles are used with count nouns.
>>>
>>>
>>> Then there's the Spanish article "lo" which is used before an
>>> adjective to let you use it as a noun: lo importante = the important
>>> (thing); lo difícil = the difficult (thing).
>>>
>>> --gary
Messages in this topic (151)
________________________________________________________________________
1.7. Re: Articles
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:25 am ((PST))
What are the etymological tacks of Spanish "lo" and Catalan "en"?
I'm wondering if Carrajina should add something like "lo." Currently, C-a
uses its normal definite article el/al/il for this function. The same
article is also used like Catalan "en" only before every proper name.
Basically every NP in C-a is marked with either the definite or indefinite
article. The only exception is the vocative which is marked solely by the
absence of any article.
Adam
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 5:12 AM, Peter Cyrus <[email protected]> wrote:
> Catalan also has personal articles that go before names: en Pere = (the)
> Peter
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 5:13 AM, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Jim Henry <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>
> > ---
> >>
> >> Some languages (e.g. French) also have partitive articles, which if I
> >> understand correctly, are used with mass nouns while the definite and
> >> indefinite articles are used with count nouns.
> >
> > Then there's the Spanish article "lo" which is used before an
> > adjective to let you use it as a noun: lo importante = the important
> > (thing); lo difícil = the difficult (thing).
> >
> > --gary
>
Messages in this topic (151)
________________________________________________________________________
1.8. Re: Articles
Posted by: "R A Brown" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:32 pm ((PST))
On 12/01/2012 19:24, Adam Walker wrote:
> What are the etymological tacks of Spanish "lo"
Latin neuter _illu(d)_
> and Catalan "en"?
Don't know about that. Some dialect variant of _el_ ??
--
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]
Messages in this topic (151)
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1.9. Re: Articles
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:07 pm ((PST))
--- On Thu, 1/12/12, Adam Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
> What are the etymological tacks of
> Spanish "lo" and Catalan "en"?
Lo as I recall is from illo (or perhaps illud?).
> I'm wondering if Carrajina should add something like
> "lo." Currently, C-a
> uses its normal definite article el/al/il for this
> function. The same
> article is also used like Catalan "en" only before every
> proper name.
I don't think it ever came to much in Kerno. Sometimes you'd find it as a
feature, sometimes not. Eventually, I think it just gave up. Brithenig
lacks it entirely.
Padraic
> Basically every NP in C-a is marked with either the
> definite or indefinite
> article. The only exception is the vocative which is
> marked solely by the
> absence of any article.
>
> Adam
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 5:12 AM, Peter Cyrus <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > Catalan also has personal articles that go before
> names: en Pere = (the)
> > Peter
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 5:13 AM, Gary Shannon <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > > On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Jim Henry <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > > ---
> > >>
> > >> Some languages (e.g. French) also have
> partitive articles, which if I
> > >> understand correctly, are used with mass
> nouns while the definite and
> > >> indefinite articles are used with count
> nouns.
> > >
> > > Then there's the Spanish article "lo" which is
> used before an
> > > adjective to let you use it as a noun: lo
> importante = the important
> > > (thing); lo difícil = the difficult (thing).
> > >
> > > --gary
> >
>
Messages in this topic (151)
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1.10. Re: Articles
Posted by: "Arnt Richard Johansen" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:26 pm ((PST))
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 12:12:39PM +0100, Peter Cyrus wrote:
> Catalan also has personal articles that go before names: en Pere = (the) Peter
Many dialects of Norwegian have obligatory marking of most personal names[1]
with ‘han’ or ‘hun’, which in the standard language are only used as 3rd p.
personal pronouns (‘he’ and ‘she’, respectively). This means that there are
three parallel ways to mark determinacy on simple noun phrase:
* Common nouns: a determiner suffix morpheme/clitic, like in the rest of the
North Germanic languages
* Personal names: a determiner word prefix
* All other proper nouns: no determiner
[1] This applies to the first name/surname/full name of any individual, from
the lowliest dog or cat all the way up to the King. There are *some*
exceptions, though. To my continued astonishment, a young boy I knew
consistently prefixed a personal article to God. I have never heard someone say
“Han Jesus”.
--
Arnt Richard Johansen http://arj.nvg.org/
There is a great deal of drinking in Japan, unbridled by licensing
hours. It forms an important part of semi-official end of work or
business negotiations [...], but is also rampant without any such
excuse. -- Ballhatchet, Kaiser: Teach Yourself Japanese
Messages in this topic (151)
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1.11. Re: Articles
Posted by: "Koppa Dasao" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:16 pm ((PST))
2012/1/12 Arnt Richard Johansen <[email protected]>:
>
> [1] This applies to the first name/surname/full name of any individual, from
> the lowliest dog or cat all the way up to the King. There are *some*
> exceptions, though. To my continued astonishment, a young boy I knew
> consistently prefixed a personal article to God. I have never heard someone
> say �Han Jesus�.
>
S� rart. �Han Jesus� e'kke s� uvanlig, da.
Koppa Dasao
___
2012 - In the west: The year of the dictators; in the Muslim world:
The year of democracy.
> --
> Arnt Richard Johansen � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � �http://arj.nvg.org/
> There is a great deal of drinking in Japan, unbridled by licensing
> hours. It forms an important part of semi-official end of work or
> business negotiations [...], but is also rampant without any such
> excuse. � � � � � � � � �-- Ballhatchet, Kaiser: Teach Yourself Japanese
Messages in this topic (151)
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1.12. Re: Articles
Posted by: "Ph. D." [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:23 pm ((PST))
Koppa Dasao wrote:
> S� rart. �Han Jesus� e'kke s� uvanlig, da.
Interestingly, Google translate gives:
< So strange. "Han Jesus" Cookie jar so unusual, that is. >
--Ph. D.
Messages in this topic (151)
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1.13. Re: Articles
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:24 pm ((PST))
Cool!
Follow me on twitter
www.twitter.com/greenmellissa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Shannon" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: Articles
> My conlang ai Basata used the personal article "ai" to turn any word
> into a proper name. Thus "rose" is the noun referring to the flower
> while "ai Rose" is a person's name.
> http://fiziwig.com/conlang/basata/grammar.html
>
> --gary
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 7:12 AM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> What are personal articles?
>>
>>
>>
>> Follow me on twitter
>>
>>
>> www.twitter.com/greenmellissa
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Cyrus" <[email protected]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 6:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: Articles
>>
>>
>>
>>> Catalan also has personal articles that go before names: en Pere = (the)
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 5:13 AM, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Jim Henry <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Some languages (e.g. French) also have partitive articles, which if I
>>>>> understand correctly, are used with mass nouns while the definite and
>>>>> indefinite articles are used with count nouns.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Then there's the Spanish article "lo" which is used before an
>>>> adjective to let you use it as a noun: lo importante = the important
>>>> (thing); lo difícil = the difficult (thing).
>>>>
>>>> --gary
Messages in this topic (151)
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1.14. Re: Articles
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" [email protected]
Date: Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:42 am ((PST))
So pronouns could be personal articles?
Follow me on twitter
www.twitter.com/greenmellissa
Messages in this topic (151)
________________________________________________________________________
1.15. Re: Articles
Posted by: "Philip Newton" [email protected]
Date: Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:55 am ((PST))
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 19:57, Padraic Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
> In usage, the main difference seems to be that pronoun forms stand alone,
> that is, can be used without any other word to lean on. While the article
> forms must lean on another word:
>
> I want _one_ -- here the pronoun stands alone.
> I want _an_ -- here the indefinite article can not stand alone.
> I want _an_ apple -- it's now happy leaning on its noun.
>
> I want _that_ -- the pronouns stands alone.
> I want _the_ -- the article can not.
> I want _the_ apple -- again, happily leaning on its noun.
>
> "Some" and "many" may either stand alone or go along with another word:
>
> I want _some_ -- is it an article or a pronoun?
> I want _some_ apples -- same question. In English, these would be counted
> as pronouns, not articles.
Depends on the analysis - some say there are two homophonous words
with different parts of speech, calling the before-a-noun words
adjectives.
For example, "I want that" --> "that" is a demonstrative pronoun, and
stands in for a noun, by itself. "I want that book" --> "that" is a
demonstrative _adjective_, which does not stand for a noun by itself,
but modifies a noun ("book" in this case).
Similarly with "possessive adjectives" vs. "possessive pronouns", for
example - "This is my book" (possessive adjective "my") but "This is
mine" (possessive pronoun "mine"). Here you can even see that they
take different shapes (my/mine or your/yours as opposed to that/that -
though his/his has the same shape in either case). Though I think
others consider "my" to be a pronoun, too, and a form of "I".
In caseful languages such as German, possessive adjectives are
sometimes considered the genitive case of the pronoun, but I think
that's wrong - "mein" in "mein Buch" is a possessive adjective, not
the genitive of "ich" (I). (The genitive does exist but is rarely used
- the only case I can think of is after the [few] prepositions that
take the genitive, such as "Wir gedachten seiner", we commemorated
him, literally, we thought of his.)
Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <[email protected]>
Messages in this topic (151)
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1.16. Re: Articles
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:33 am ((PST))
--- On Fri, 1/13/12, Philip Newton <[email protected]> wrote:
> > In usage, the main difference seems to be that pronoun
> > forms stand alone,
> > that is, can be used without any other word to lean
> > on. While the article forms must lean on another word:
> >
> > I want _one_ -- here the pronoun stands alone.
> > I want _an_ -- here the indefinite article can not
> > stand alone.
> > I want _an_ apple -- it's now happy leaning on its noun.
> >
> > I want _that_ -- the pronouns stands alone.
> > I want _the_ -- the article can not.
> > I want _the_ apple -- again, happily leaning on its noun.
> >
> > "Some" and "many" may either stand alone or go along
> > with another word:
> >
> > I want _some_ -- is it an article or a pronoun?
> > I want _some_ apples -- same question. In English,
> > these would be counted as pronouns, not articles.
>
> Depends on the analysis - some say there are two
> homophonous words
> with different parts of speech, calling the before-a-noun
> words adjectives.
Sure. I think the argument can be made that "some apples" is an article.
I had thought I mentioned that "some" is considered by some sources as
the plural indefinite article. I think it can just as easily be argued
that this is an indefinite adjective/pronoun pair. Since we already have
very many such adj/pron pairs, I think it makes more sense to call
some/some just such a pair, rather than 'invent' a novel adj/art pair
just because it can be done.
> For example, "I want that" --> "that" is a demonstrative
> pronoun, and
> stands in for a noun, by itself. "I want that book" -->
> "that" is a
> demonstrative _adjective_, which does not stand for a noun
> by itself,
> but modifies a noun ("book" in this case).
Yep. Just as with "some", or indeed "those" or "these" or "whose" or
any other similar adj/pron pair.
> Similarly with "possessive adjectives" vs. "possessive
> pronouns", for
> example - "This is my book" (possessive adjective "my") but
> "This is
> mine" (possessive pronoun "mine"). Here you can even see
> that they
> take different shapes (my/mine or your/yours as opposed to
> that/that -
> though his/his has the same shape in either case). Though I
> think
> others consider "my" to be a pronoun, too, and a form of
> "I".
Historically, there was also the matter of whether the noun started with
a vowel or consonant: "my book" v. "mine eye". One thing you can't really
do with "my" is let it stand alone as a pronoun:
*He took my.
Clearly, not a pronoun. Like ending a symphony on the dominant -- you want
that final resolution. Here you just want to scream "my WHAT?" It needs
to be "he took mine".
> In caseful languages such as German, possessive adjectives
> are
> sometimes considered the genitive case of the pronoun, but
> I think
> that's wrong - "mein" in "mein Buch" is a possessive
> adjective, not
> the genitive of "ich" (I). (The genitive does exist but is
> rarely used
As in English. We could construct a sentence with the genitive "I's".
Probably in some kind of poetry. Not something you'd ordinarily see or say.
> - the only case I can think of is after the [few]
> prepositions that
> take the genitive, such as "Wir gedachten seiner", we
> commemorated
> him, literally, we thought of his.)
Padraic
> Cheers,
> Philip
> --
> Philip Newton <[email protected]>
>
Messages in this topic (151)
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1.17. Re: Articles
Posted by: "Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets" [email protected]
Date: Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:36 am ((PST))
On 13 January 2012 13:54, Philip Newton <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Depends on the analysis - some say there are two homophonous words
> with different parts of speech, calling the before-a-noun words
> adjectives.
>
> For example, "I want that" --> "that" is a demonstrative pronoun, and
> stands in for a noun, by itself. "I want that book" --> "that" is a
> demonstrative _adjective_, which does not stand for a noun by itself,
> but modifies a noun ("book" in this case).
>
>
That's how I usually describe such things as well, but I've seen different
descriptions. Some even seem to throw in the towel and refer to those words
as "pronoun-adjectives" :P .
>
> In caseful languages such as German, possessive adjectives are
> sometimes considered the genitive case of the pronoun, but I think
> that's wrong - "mein" in "mein Buch" is a possessive adjective, not
> the genitive of "ich" (I). (The genitive does exist but is rarely used
> - the only case I can think of is after the [few] prepositions that
> take the genitive, such as "Wir gedachten seiner", we commemorated
> him, literally, we thought of his.)
>
>
I agree with you. In Latin for instance, the possessive pronouns are
definitely distinct from the genitive of personal pronouns, if only because
they decline. For instance, "mine" is _meus, mea, meum_ (declined as an
adjective), but the genitive of _ego_ is the invariable _mei_. While they
look similar, they definitely are different words.
Of course, there *are* languages that simply lack possessives, and use the
genitive of the personal pronouns to replace them. Modern Greek is such a
case (e.g. το σπίτι μου: my house. Μου is simply the genitive case of εγώ,
and the construction is just like any other construction with a genitive:
το σπίτι του Ανδρέα: Andreas's house). My own Moten is another. This
doesn't change that I've sometimes seen confused people describe μου as a
possessive pronoun!
--
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
Messages in this topic (151)
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1.18. Re: Articles
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:37 am ((PST))
--- On Fri, 1/13/12, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <[email protected]>
wrote:
> So pronouns could be personal articles?
Not really. A personal article is a word used *in conjunction with* a
name. "En Nicole". "En Carlos Valencia". "En Senyor Ruiz".
Pronouns are used to replace nouns (or names). "John saw Mary" becomes
"He saw her".
Padraic
Messages in this topic (151)
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2. Gendered Nouns
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:31 am ((PST))
I just went back on my word while creating articles. Now my nouns do have
masculine and femine forms.
Follow me on twitter
www.twitter.com/greenmellissa
Messages in this topic (1)
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3.1. Re: New Year's Thoughts
Posted by: "Charlie Brickner" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:23 am ((PST))
On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 20:03:41 -0500, Puey McCleary
<[email protected]> wrote:
>It is true, though, that not all of us can or want to write fiction.
I have no interest in writing fiction, but I do enjoy translation exercises.
>Sometimes I�ve pondered the idea of translating a book of
>the Bible into Khl�jha, but I do despair on what I could do. Which book,
>for instance? I prefer stories over laws. Perhaps the Diatessaron would
>be a good substitute for the Gospels.
I've composed diatessera of several of the gospel stories: Agony in the
Garden, Baptism, Last Supper, Miracle of the Loaves, Resurrection,
Transfiguration, and the Triumphal Entry into Jerusalem. If you translate
directly from the Greek, you get a lot of practice with participial phrases.
I have been working recently on the Song of Songs, but stopped temporarily
over the Christmas holiday to translate the story of the Magi.
> However, I
>would be sorely tempted to localize the stories for my world. So the
>Twelve apostles could be twelve aliens, the fishermen of course sail in
>zeppelins to catch the sky fish, and the Savior rides a triceratops into
>the holy city. Such localizing would only end up offending everyone, so I
>think I�d stay away from the scripture of any religion.
I don't know why it would offend anyone. It's your own personal work.
Unless, of course, you're thinking of publishing these translations for others
to
read.
The conworld in which Senjecas is spoken is millennia before the Judaeo-
Christian Scriptures were written, so they have no bearing on the conworld.
For me they're just exercises in translating.
I'd like to take a shot at translating some of the myths from other world
religions.
Charlie
>
Messages in this topic (55)
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4a. Sironu Verbs
Posted by: "J. Snow" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:15 pm ((PST))
I've recently been working on improving my conlang's verb system, and I'd like
to see if I can get some ideas to add onto/alter what I already have.
-Verbs have 3 tenses and two moods, indicative and negative.
-Subject and object pronouns can be added to the verb as prefixes and
afixes, respectively.
-The verb can be made imperative by adding qe- (you sing., nominative).
-You add vas- vax- or vaxo- (depending on the letter after it) to make
gerunds.
-Tacking the auxillary word "po" in front of it makes the verb imperfect.
After that, I've pretty much run out of ideas.
Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
4b. Re: Sironu Verbs
Posted by: "Larry Sulky" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:45 pm ((PST))
Well, let's see. Mine has:
3 tenses: past, present, and future.
3 aspects: progressive, perfect, and habitual.
3 moods: indicative, imperative, and what I call "obligational" (kind of a
mild imperative that can be used in first, second, or third person...
"hortative" is almost the right term, and in English we use a subjunctive
construct for it: "I should go; you should go; they should go").
3 voices: active, passive, and what I call "plupassive" (where the indirect
object of the active verb becomes the subject of the plupassive verb).
(I didn't design it to have 3 of each; it just worked out that way.) All of
these are marked by separate particles or the lack thereof. The unmarked
form is present progressive indicative active (unless there is no subject,
in which case it's present progressive imperative active).
Other TAMs are handled periphrastically.
I also have gerunds and participles.
I would be happy to learn of proper terminology where I've made it up or
misused it.
---larry
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 5:15 PM, J. Snow <[email protected]> wrote:
> I've recently been working on improving my conlang's verb system, and I'd
> like
> to see if I can get some ideas to add onto/alter what I already have.
>
> -Verbs have 3 tenses and two moods, indicative and negative.
>
> -Subject and object pronouns can be added to the verb as prefixes and
> afixes, respectively.
>
> -The verb can be made imperative by adding qe- (you sing., nominative).
>
> -You add vas- vax- or vaxo- (depending on the letter after it) to make
> gerunds.
>
> -Tacking the auxillary word "po" in front of it makes the verb imperfect.
>
> After that, I've pretty much run out of ideas.
>
--
*Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day I
can hear her breathing. -- Arundhati Roy*
Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
4c. Re: Sironu Verbs
Posted by: "Patrick Dunn" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:56 pm ((PST))
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 4:15 PM, J. Snow <[email protected]> wrote:
> I've recently been working on improving my conlang's verb system, and I'd
> like
> to see if I can get some ideas to add onto/alter what I already have.
>
> -Verbs have 3 tenses and two moods, indicative and negative.
>
I love negative moods. Which is a very odd sentence to type.
>
> -Subject and object pronouns can be added to the verb as prefixes and
> afixes, respectively.
>
A prefix is a type of affix. Do you mean suffix?
>
> -The verb can be made imperative by adding qe- (you sing., nominative).
>
Then it has three moods: indicative, negative, and imperative.
> -You add vas- vax- or vaxo- (depending on the letter after it) to make
> gerunds.
>
Are gerunds distinct from infinitives? That distinction isn't universal.
>
> -Tacking the auxillary word "po" in front of it makes the verb imperfect.
>
Then you're also dealing with aspect, as well as tense.
>
> After that, I've pretty much run out of ideas.
>
Try some translations and see what happens!
--
Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now available for
order from Finishing Line
Press<http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
and
Amazon<http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2>.
Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
5a. An interesting resource for Conlangers
Posted by: "Gary Shannon" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:32 pm ((PST))
Caleb Gattengo's book "A Thousand Sentences":
Available for viewing online at:
http://calebgattegno.org/teaching-languages/167-a-thousand-sentences.html
Also available via Google Books, and in print ISBN: 978-0878252305
"The sentences in this book are generally short in length and direct
in expression. They aim to provide a first exercise for students who
are not ready to read a whole book in the English language. At the
same time the sentences are designed to convey a picture of some
aspects of social and cultural life in the United States."
A few samples:
1. I live in a house.
2. There are six rooms in my house.
3. The dining room is one of them.
4. Three of the others are bedrooms.
5. There is a living room and a kitchen.
6. There is also a bathroom.
7. We have most of our meals in the dining room.
8. In the morning we have breakfasty in the kitchen.
9. We sleep in the bedrooms.
10. In the living room we talk together, listen to music, read or
watch television.
11. We also entertain guests there.
12. In the bathroom there is a bathtub, a shower, a sink, and a toilet.
...
980. Until dogs are six months old they are called puppies; young cats
are called kittens.
981. Dogs and cats may have pedigrees, which means they are pure-bred,
with registered lineage.
982. The owner of a well-trained dog ,may enter him in a dog show.
983. A dog that is a mixture of several breeds is called a mutt.
984. Even in small apartments, people keep large dogs which have to be
walked daily.
985. Cats are usually more suited to apartment dwelling because they
do not need to be exercised.
...
--gary
Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
5b. Re: An interesting resource for Conlangers
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:23 am ((PST))
In general, I like Gattegno's book.
stevo
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
> Caleb Gattengo's book "A Thousand Sentences":
>
> Available for viewing online at:
>
> http://calebgattegno.org/teaching-languages/167-a-thousand-sentences.html
> Also available via Google Books, and in print ISBN: 978-0878252305
>
> "The sentences in this book are generally short in length and direct
> in expression. They aim to provide a first exercise for students who
> are not ready to read a whole book in the English language. At the
> same time the sentences are designed to convey a picture of some
> aspects of social and cultural life in the United States."
>
> A few samples:
>
> 1. I live in a house.
> 2. There are six rooms in my house.
> 3. The dining room is one of them.
> 4. Three of the others are bedrooms.
> 5. There is a living room and a kitchen.
> 6. There is also a bathroom.
> 7. We have most of our meals in the dining room.
> 8. In the morning we have breakfasty in the kitchen.
> 9. We sleep in the bedrooms.
> 10. In the living room we talk together, listen to music, read or
> watch television.
> 11. We also entertain guests there.
> 12. In the bathroom there is a bathtub, a shower, a sink, and a toilet.
> ...
> 980. Until dogs are six months old they are called puppies; young cats
> are called kittens.
> 981. Dogs and cats may have pedigrees, which means they are pure-bred,
> with registered lineage.
> 982. The owner of a well-trained dog ,may enter him in a dog show.
> 983. A dog that is a mixture of several breeds is called a mutt.
> 984. Even in small apartments, people keep large dogs which have to be
> walked daily.
> 985. Cats are usually more suited to apartment dwelling because they
> do not need to be exercised.
> ...
>
> --gary
>
Messages in this topic (2)
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