There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Days of the week
From: Adam Walker
1b. Re: Days of the week
From: Nikolay Ivankov
1c. Re: Days of the week
From: Adam Walker
1d. Re: Days of the week
From: Charlie Brickner
1e. Re: Days of the week
From: Patrick Dunn
1f. Re: Days of the week
From: MorphemeAddict
1g. Re: Days of the week
From: Padraic Brown
1h. Re: Days of the week
From: Padraic Brown
2a. Re: Edenics
From: Alex Fink
2b. Re: Edenics
From: George Corley
2c. Re: Edenics
From: G. van der Vegt
2d. Re: Edenics
From: Sam Stutter
3a. Re: Worldbuilding Question
From: Alex Fink
3b. Re: Worldbuilding Question
From: Nikolay Ivankov
3c. Re: Worldbuilding Question
From: Padraic Brown
3d. Re: Worldbuilding Question
From: Sam Stutter
3e. Re: Worldbuilding Question
From: Padraic Brown
4a. Carsten Becker's Interlinear WP Plugin
From: David Peterson
4b. Re: Carsten Becker's Interlinear WP Plugin
From: Carsten Becker
5a. Re: YSL
From: Padraic Brown
5b. Re: YSL
From: MorphemeAddict
6a. Babbling and Other Baby Talk
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
6b. Re: Babbling and Other Baby Talk
From: Scott Hlad
6c. Re: Babbling and Other Baby Talk
From: Ben Scerri
6d. Re: Babbling and Other Baby Talk
From: MorphemeAddict
Messages
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1a. Re: Days of the week
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:31 am ((PST))
________________________________
From: Christophe Grandsire-K
________________________________
From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <[email protected]>
>I personally like the Japanese way, which does a "cultural translation" of
>the Western pagan day names: Sunday is nichiyoubi, literally "Sun day",
>Monday is getsuyoubi, literally "Moon day", and the other five days are
>based on the Eastern elements (Fire, Water, Wood, Gold or Metal, and
>Earth), arranged to correspond to the planets corresponding to the god
>names used in the Latin day names! (Tuesday, Mars's day, is kayoubi: "Fire
>day", Wednesday, Mercury's day, is suiyoubi: "Water day", Thursday,
>Jupiter's day, is mokuyoubi: "Wood day", Friday, Venus's day, is kinyoubi:
>"Gold day", and Saturday, Saturn's day, is doyoubi: "Earth day"). Chinese
>does it the same way (in fact, Japanese borrowed the system from Chinese,
>AFAIK).
Actually, no, not quite. The planets follow the same scheme in Chinese.
Mercury is Suixing (Water-star)
Venus is Jinxing (Gold/Metal-star)
Mars is Huoxing (Fire-star)
Jupiter is Muxing (Wood-star)
Saturn is Tuxing (Dirt/Earth-star)
But the days of the week are simply numbered 1-6 starting with Monday and then
Sunday is either ri (sun/day) or tian (sky/heaven/day) with either xingqi
(star-period) libai (worship) or zhou (cycle) prefixed to the appropriate
element.
Adam
Messages in this topic (12)
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1b. Re: Days of the week
Posted by: "Nikolay Ivankov" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:23 am ((PST))
In Russian three days are called by their number starting with Monday:
these are Vrotnik ("vtoroj"="second"), Chetverg (fourth) and P'atnitsa
(fifth). Saturday is Subbota, derived from Sabbath, and Sunday is
Voskresen'ye, which means "Resurrection". In previous times (and in
Ukrainian it is still so) Sunday was called Nedel'a (in modern Russian this
means "week"), and this means ~"do nothing". Monday is Ponedel'nik, that
is, the day that goes after "Nedel'a". Finally, Wednesday is Sreda which
means "middle" and suggests that previously the first day of the week was
Sunday.
A friend of mine told me, that there are some 6 names of the days concerned
with Bible in Irish, though AFAIR these wore mostly concerned with "before
fasting" (on Friday) or "after fasting". Can't say for sure.
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 7:25 AM, Scott Hlad <[email protected]> wrote:
> For Asirka, I have been thinking about days of the week. I was thinking of
> deriving the names from the biblical creation narrative. I'm not sure
> though
> how that would fit in with the natural progression of calendar development
> in the world. Obviously I can choose whatever i want. I'm wondering if any
> natlangs used this as the basis of the names.
>
Messages in this topic (12)
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1c. Re: Days of the week
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:33 am ((PST))
I meant to mention in my previous post, and forgot to, that I seem to
recall that West African languages such as Hausa and Yoruba traditionally
named their days according to products available in the market on that day.
Adam
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Nikolay Ivankov <[email protected]>wrote:
> In Russian three days are called by their number starting with Monday:
> these are Vrotnik ("vtoroj"="second"), Chetverg (fourth) and P'atnitsa
> (fifth). Saturday is Subbota, derived from Sabbath, and Sunday is
> Voskresen'ye, which means "Resurrection". In previous times (and in
> Ukrainian it is still so) Sunday was called Nedel'a (in modern Russian this
> means "week"), and this means ~"do nothing". Monday is Ponedel'nik, that
> is, the day that goes after "Nedel'a". Finally, Wednesday is Sreda which
> means "middle" and suggests that previously the first day of the week was
> Sunday.
>
> A friend of mine told me, that there are some 6 names of the days concerned
> with Bible in Irish, though AFAIR these wore mostly concerned with "before
> fasting" (on Friday) or "after fasting". Can't say for sure.
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 7:25 AM, Scott Hlad <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > For Asirka, I have been thinking about days of the week. I was thinking
> of
> > deriving the names from the biblical creation narrative. I'm not sure
> > though
> > how that would fit in with the natural progression of calendar
> development
> > in the world. Obviously I can choose whatever i want. I'm wondering if
> any
> > natlangs used this as the basis of the names.
> >
>
Messages in this topic (12)
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1d. Re: Days of the week
Posted by: "Charlie Brickner" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:17 am ((PST))
On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 23:25:28 -0700, Scott Hlad <[email protected]>
wrote:
>For Asirka, I have been thinking about days of the week. I was thinking of
>deriving the names from the biblical creation narrative. I'm not sure though
>how that would fit in with the natural progression of calendar development
>in the world. Obviously I can choose whatever i want. I'm wondering if any
>natlangs used this as the basis of the names.
In Sefdaania:
In the beginning when the Ethrans decided on a 6-day week, they merely
numbered the days: first day, second day, etc.
After the creation of the last of the Loquent Peoples, the Lithans, they gave
the days proper names.
In the Sefdaanian mythology, there is only one God (Ilmus), but he/she
manifested him/herself in different ways for the creation of each of the
Peoples. I call them avatars. It is in the person of their avatar that the
Peoples worship God. And, as each of the Peoples was created out of one of
the six elements, that element is associated with that day as well.
These are the names of the days of the week in the Senjecan language::
1 - ilmáámras (air)
2 - pwàsenáámras (fire)
3 - neeráámras (water)
4 - tàronáámras (earth)
5 - pèrkunáámras (wood)
6 hàlsoosáámras (stone)
When the Loquent Peoples came into contact with the 7-day week, they
added a day and called it ìlmmhespéras, Ilmus Eve.
Charlie
Messages in this topic (12)
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1e. Re: Days of the week
Posted by: "Patrick Dunn" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:25 am ((PST))
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 4:03 AM, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <
[email protected]> wrote:
> On 13 February 2012 07:32, Matthew Boutilier <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > well, as you know probably know, germanic and romance languages use the
> > names of old gods and astrological bodies.
> >
> >
> True, but not of all Romance languages: in Portuguese, the Catholic Church
> managed to get its way and remove the pagan day names: except for Saturday
> and Sunday (Sábado and Domingo respectively), all the days of the week are
> numbered, with Sunday as the first day, so Monday is Segunda, Tuesday is
> Terça, etc.
>
> Modern Greek does the same, with ΣάβαÏο (Saturday), ÎÏ
Ïιακή
> (Sunday),
> ÎεÏ
ÏÎÏα (Second) for Monday, ΤÏίÏη (Third) for Tuesday, etc,
> except that
> Friday isn't numbered but named ΠαÏαÏκεÏ
ή: Preparation (for the
> Sabbath).
>
What were the classical/Koine names for the days of the week? Or did Greek
speakers never adopt the seven day week?
--
Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now available for
order from Finishing Line
Press<http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
and
Amazon<http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2>.
Messages in this topic (12)
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1f. Re: Days of the week
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:52 pm ((PST))
Tuesday is "vtornik" (вÑоÑник), not "vrotnik".
stevo
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 12:23 PM, Nikolay Ivankov <[email protected]>wrote:
> In Russian three days are called by their number starting with Monday:
> these are Vrotnik ("vtoroj"="second"), Chetverg (fourth) and P'atnitsa
> (fifth). Saturday is Subbota, derived from Sabbath, and Sunday is
> Voskresen'ye, which means "Resurrection". In previous times (and in
> Ukrainian it is still so) Sunday was called Nedel'a (in modern Russian this
> means "week"), and this means ~"do nothing". Monday is Ponedel'nik, that
> is, the day that goes after "Nedel'a". Finally, Wednesday is Sreda which
> means "middle" and suggests that previously the first day of the week was
> Sunday.
>
> A friend of mine told me, that there are some 6 names of the days concerned
> with Bible in Irish, though AFAIR these wore mostly concerned with "before
> fasting" (on Friday) or "after fasting". Can't say for sure.
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 7:25 AM, Scott Hlad <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > For Asirka, I have been thinking about days of the week. I was thinking
> of
> > deriving the names from the biblical creation narrative. I'm not sure
> > though
> > how that would fit in with the natural progression of calendar
> development
> > in the world. Obviously I can choose whatever i want. I'm wondering if
> any
> > natlangs used this as the basis of the names.
> >
>
Messages in this topic (12)
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1g. Re: Days of the week
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:54 pm ((PST))
--- On Mon, 2/13/12, Adam Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
> I meant to mention in my previous
> post, and forgot to, that I seem to
> recall that West African languages such as Hausa and Yoruba
> traditionally
> named their days according to products available in the
> market on that day.
Kind of like the half tongue-in-cheek "Meatloaf Day", "Casserole Day",
"Fish Day", etc one encounters among some American families, at least
on tv.
Padraic
>
> Adam
>
Messages in this topic (12)
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1h. Re: Days of the week
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:02 pm ((PST))
--- On Mon, 2/13/12, Scott Hlad <[email protected]> wrote:
> For Asirka, I have been thinking
> about days of the week. I was thinking of
> deriving the names from the biblical creation narrative. I'm
> not sure though
> how that would fit in with the natural progression of
> calendar development
> in the world. Obviously I can choose whatever i want. I'm
> wondering if any
> natlangs used this as the basis of the names.
I don't see why the names of days would necessarily impact calendar
development. I'd only say that using the Biblical account of creation would
almost categorically impose a seven day week with a built-in week-end. It
might be interesting if Asirka had a *different* scheme that became
changed with Christian (or Jewish) influence...
Funny that... I don't seem to have much in the way of Daynames for any
place in the World. The only note on days I have is "The chiefs of the
race of archangels are said to be seven in number. According to the Jews,
they are: Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Oriel, Raguel, Remiel and Saraqael.
The Kristians of Abyssinia and Kemeteia-Misser hold that the seven are:
Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Suriel, Zadakiel, Sarathiel and Aniel. In the
Eastlands, the seven archangels are said to rule over a particular day and
season: Michael (Sunday), Gabriel (Monday), Raphael (Tuesday), Oriel
(Wednesday), Sealtiel (Thursday), Jegudiel, (Friday), and Barachiel
(Saturday)."
I'm sure in Germanic speaking countries the names are similar to the
old English names for the days and in Rumic and Remic speaking countries
the names are similar to Latin names.
Padraic
Messages in this topic (12)
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2a. Re: Edenics
Posted by: "Alex Fink" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:53 am ((PST))
On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 11:29:04 +0000, Sam Stutter <[email protected]> wrote:
>Was trying to remember the name of that early linguist who, in wanting to
discover the language of Eden, attempted to raise a load of children in
isolation and find out how they spoke. (The language of Eden was, of course,
Flemish).
Oh, not Psammetichus I then? 'Cause his conclusion was Phrygian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psammetichus_I#Discovering_the_origin_of_language
>However, I discovered this: http://www.edenics.org/about/what-is-edenics/
which is *far* more interesting!
>
>- Are you a fan of pseudoscience?
>- Is your knowledge of linguistics rather second-hand?
>- Do you believe that atheists and communists are all evil?
>
>Then this is the website for you!
Hm, a lot of this crawling out of the woodwork of late. Another one is
http://books.google.com/books?id=ODKzoRUdjikC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Her intentions are in the right place, but apparently Tlingit speakers don't
recognise the supposed Tlingit language in the book... Tlingit is also
derived from Scottish Gaelic, she finds. And the appendices go every kind
of kooky.
Alex
Messages in this topic (5)
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2b. Re: Edenics
Posted by: "George Corley" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:59 am ((PST))
Haha, these people are rediculous. Discovery of the Indo-European family
isn't due to development of a superior historical linguistic method -- it's
due to RACISM! Has anyone ever told them that PIE originated in the Indus
river valley?
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:29 AM, Sam Stutter <[email protected]> wrote:
> Was trying to remember the name of that early linguist who, in wanting to
> discover the language of Eden, attempted to raise a load of children in
> isolation and find out how they spoke. (The language of Eden was, of
> course, Flemish).
>
> However, I discovered this:
> http://www.edenics.org/about/what-is-edenics/which is *far* more interesting!
>
> - Are you a fan of pseudoscience?
> - Is your knowledge of linguistics rather second-hand?
> - Do you believe that atheists and communists are all evil?
>
> Then this is the website for you!
>
> Sam Stutter
> [email protected]
> "No e na il cu barri"
>
Messages in this topic (5)
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2c. Re: Edenics
Posted by: "G. van der Vegt" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:01 am ((PST))
Uhmm... this seems to be a religious discussion. Yes, it's
pseudoscience, but the topic is clearly rooted in religious matters.
G. van der Vegt
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 5:59 PM, George Corley <[email protected]> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender: Constructed Languages List <[email protected]>
> Poster: George Corley <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Edenics
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Haha, these people are rediculous. Discovery of the Indo-European family
> isn't due to development of a superior historical linguistic method -- it's
> due to RACISM! Has anyone ever told them that PIE originated in the Indus
> river valley?
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:29 AM, Sam Stutter <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Was trying to remember the name of that early linguist who, in wanting to
>> discover the language of Eden, attempted to raise a load of children in
>> isolation and find out how they spoke. (The language of Eden was, of
>> course, Flemish).
>>
>> However, I discovered this:
>> http://www.edenics.org/about/what-is-edenics/which is *far* more interesting!
>>
>> - Are you a fan of pseudoscience?
>> - Is your knowledge of linguistics rather second-hand?
>> - Do you believe that atheists and communists are all evil?
>>
>> Then this is the website for you!
>>
>> Sam Stutter
>> [email protected]
>> "No e na il cu barri"
>>
Messages in this topic (5)
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2d. Re: Edenics
Posted by: "Sam Stutter" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:17 am ((PST))
On 13 Feb 2012, at 16:53, Alex Fink wrote:
> Oh, not Psammetichus I then? 'Cause his conclusion was Phrygian.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psammetichus_I#Discovering_the_origin_of_language
Of course, that's the chap! Thanks. Phrygian, Flemish, same thing (I must have
confused Flemish and Frisian somewhere and then got it wrong)
> Hm, a lot of this crawling out of the woodwork of late. Another one is
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=ODKzoRUdjikC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
> Her intentions are in the right place, but apparently Tlingit speakers don't
> recognise the supposed Tlingit language in the book... Tlingit is also
> derived from Scottish Gaelic, she finds. And the appendices go every kind
> of kooky.
>
> Alex
I think it's the Top Gear "I mean, how hard can it be?" philosophy.
> Uhmm... this seems to be a religious discussion. Yes, it's pseudoscience, but
> the topic is clearly rooted in religious matters.
I know. The problem I have isn't with him questioning scientific theories from
a religious viewpoint, the problem is his presumption / bile and not
understanding / interacting with the theories he questions.
Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Re: Worldbuilding Question
Posted by: "Alex Fink" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:57 am ((PST))
On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 09:51:47 +0100, Nikolay Ivankov <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I'm not really sure that this is the question to the LCS,
It is worth pointing out that CONLANG-L has no connection to the LCS.
Alex
LCS boardmember
Messages in this topic (8)
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3b. Re: Worldbuilding Question
Posted by: "Nikolay Ivankov" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:00 am ((PST))
Well, thanks as well. Still, the question was not about the conlangery.
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 5:57 PM, Alex Fink <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 09:51:47 +0100, Nikolay Ivankov <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >I'm not really sure that this is the question to the LCS,
>
> It is worth pointing out that CONLANG-L has no connection to the LCS.
>
> Alex
> LCS boardmember
>
Messages in this topic (8)
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3c. Re: Worldbuilding Question
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:51 pm ((PST))
--- On Mon, 2/13/12, J. Snow <[email protected]> wrote:
> The conworld I derived my conlang
> from is a patchwork of elements from our own
> world. I've mainly been dealing with a set time period in
> this world, and I've only
> bothered with a relatively small region, because planning on
> using it in a story I'm
> trying to write.
>
> -Society in this region is roughly similar to Roman times
> (in some places), around
> 500 BC to 100 AD.
> -The technology is rather advanced for these types of
> societies; steel is beginning
> to become mass-produced, and steam powered ships and
> machinery are common
> several of the nations of this region.
> -Science is in a post Renaissance-like stage; the telescope
> is a recent invention and
> microscopes have been around for a century.
> -Religion is a bit blurred; there is a duothiestic,
> Christian-like religion that has been
> around for 1000 years but Romanesque gods are still widely
> worshipped.
Sounds, in many respects, a lot like the World! Although any philosopher
worth his salt knows all about Hippostom's work on steam motivators some
time in the 1500s (mostly at Alixaundria in the Eastlands), few are
convinced that steam could in the long run ever compete economically with
the thaumological alternatives. They have analogues to railways and
airships and telephones and so forth; "science" may not be quite up to
postrenaissance times, mind. The human West is largely dualistic, either
Zoroastrian outright or a strongly Zoroastrian informed Christianity.
The old gods haven't disappeared, but have largely been subsumed into one
of the main-line religions.
Not really sure what you mean by "society in this region is roughly
similar to Roman times" though. Does that mean they are culturally Etrusco-
Roman or that you have some kind of 500BC benchmark level that most
cultures are at, based on ancient Roman models?
> My question is, how might these events have developed into
> what they are "today"? And how might democracy develop in this type of
> situation?
What events in particular?
Democracy was already pretty well understood in those days -- if you were
a free male citizen of some means, then your society was entirely
democratic and you could vote or hold office. If you were a woman or a
slave or just part of the mob, well, your society was a lot less
democratic! (Keep in mind that "democracy" in early America was not a whole
lot different -- the early American republic was "democratic" in so far as
the voting public had to own land, be male and not be a slave. The idea of
letting *everyone* vote, regardless of whether or not they are societal
producers (tax-paying / wage earning / etc) regardless even of their
status as citizen or legal resident is a new concept.)
The situation is not a whole lot different in the World -- most human
societies pretend to a certain amount of democracy, but few actually
engage in true democracy. Most allow a certain level of say in how things
are done by any non-enslaved, male, living person that has residence in
the local polity; some allow females to have some say; others
disenfranchise men altogether. Daine rarely have a say in local human
politics (and few care to become involved when they are allowed); and
that's fair because they don't allow humans to settle in their lands at
all, let alone allow them the vote.
Auntimoany is probably the most democratic human society going. Probably
not too far off from late 19th century England in form and practice of
democracy. Rumnias is probably more like republican Rome in some respects.
A good 2000 year sweep there.
I'll be very interested to read more about your world! You might consider
broaching the topic over on Conculture, as the topic is more appropriate
there.
Padraic
Messages in this topic (8)
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3d. Re: Worldbuilding Question
Posted by: "Sam Stutter" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:06 pm ((PST))
On 13 Feb 2012, at 22:50, Padraic Brown wrote:
> Not really sure what you mean by "society in this region is roughly
> similar to Roman times" though. Does that mean they are culturally Etrusco-
> Roman or that you have some kind of 500BC benchmark level that most
> cultures are at, based on ancient Roman models?
Perhaps the Roman military-political-economical engine: invade somewhere,
oppress them briefly, make them citizens, overlay Roman authority onto existing
power structures, dole out some civil rights and then reap the rewards of
taxation. Concentrate on practical sciences R&D for the military, wear
uncomfortable clothes, etc, etc.
>
>> My question is, how might these events have developed into
>> what they are "today"? And how might democracy develop in this type of
>> situation?
>
> What events in particular?
I would say, all major political events in British political history
post-Restoration (1660), the first French presidential election in 1875, or
possibly the Model Parliament of 1295. My personal suggestion would be to just
bean up on as many big historical events as possible: essentially what you'll
have to be doing is tracing a vote limited to members of the male gentry, out
to each citizen: with each big barrier being broken with some great social
upheaval. Then the judicial system will need to be reformed, religion exorcised
from de-facto power, expansion of civil liberties, blah blah blah.
Messages in this topic (8)
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3e. Re: Worldbuilding Question
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:31 pm ((PST))
--- On Mon, 2/13/12, Sam Stutter <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Not really sure what you mean by "society in this region is roughly
> > similar to Roman times" though. Does that mean they are culturally
> > Etrusco-Roman or that you have some kind of 500BC benchmark level that
> > most cultures are at, based on ancient Roman models?
>
> Perhaps the Roman military-political-economical engine:
Could be.
> >> My question is, how might these events have developed into
> >> what they are "today"? And how might democracy develop in this type of
> >> situation?
>
> > What events in particular?
>
> I would say, all major political events in British political
> history post-Restoration (1660), [etc]
The short answer there is "probably none of those things will happen". At
least not quite as advertised. Any longer answer would require knowing
much more about this world and its history.
Padraic
Messages in this topic (8)
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4a. Carsten Becker's Interlinear WP Plugin
Posted by: "David Peterson" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:04 pm ((PST))
Carsten Becker (Ayeri) has created a plugin for WordPress that formats
interlinears. Specifically, for however many lines you have, it takes the first
word of the first line and matches it up with the first of the second, the
first of the third, etc., and for each word. If you use WordPress for conlang
purposes, this is awesome! You can download it here:
http://bit.ly/xvPeQU
Note that the formatting won't come out in RSS readers, I believe (or at least
it doesn't come out in mine), resulting in each word becoming its own line, but
it works in the browser.
David Peterson
LCS President
[email protected]
www.conlang.org
Messages in this topic (2)
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4b. Re: Carsten Becker's Interlinear WP Plugin
Posted by: "Carsten Becker" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:45 pm ((PST))
Hi David,
thanks for the *very* positive feedback :D I've answered to the comment
regarding your RSS program troubles on the page. Unfortunately I don't know
how Mail.app handles HTML and CSS in these, so I don't know offhand how to
fix it.
Cheers
Carsten
Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
5a. Re: YSL
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:24 pm ((PST))
--- On Mon, 2/13/12, Patrick Dunn <[email protected]> wrote:
> By the way, our world's "healing academies" teach a variety
> of language --
> a very simplified and badly abused mixture of Latin and
> Greek.
This is true, though it might actually be more complex than many people
are aware.
> Technically, it's a jargon, but it's a very complex and
> well-developed jargon.
Indeed. And it's not just the mumbo-jumbo Latin names for weecritters or
obscure diseases. There are distinct turns of English phraseology that
will never be uttered outside the walls of a healing academy. This jargon
is very heavy on laterally and directionally oriented adverbs, I think
far more than ordinary talk. Lots of acronyms and obscure abbreviations.
Common talk phrases given new and peculiar meanings. Obscure references
to luminaries of the art. Pretty nifty all around.
> So a healing academy insisting that all of its
> students learn
> Yardish -- or Latin, or Greek, or Sanskrit, or Hebrew --
> doesn't strike me
> as at all unrealistic by our world's standards. But
> you don't need our
> world' standards at all; just state with enough authority
> that such a thing
> is the case in your world, and people will believe it.
Of course.
> Heck, begin the
> novel with "Jorax took off his red, pointed healing hat and
> fingered the
> Plorax staff with his ritually mutilated left hand" and
> people will quite
> effortlessly incorporate the weirdness into their discourse
> model.
Ah. I take it Jorax must have come in contact with one of Old King
Crowelle's merry olde laws on the practice of medicine. "Ye Chiugeons All do
quake who do harme to any Man, lest harm be done to thee! For His
High Majesty has said this: the surgeon which kill a man during the operation
shall cause the own hand of his choosing, that is his left or
right, to be cut off by the agency of his remaining handâ. It should be
noted in all fairness, however, that the penalty for such a self
mutilation is for the other hand to be âremoved in a manner liable to
cause much grinding of bones and great howls of painâ.
On the other hand (well, whatever hand or dangling part thereof that may
be remaining...), medical malpractice rates were quite low indeed during
Crowelle's reign.
On the third hand, if the surgeon did in the man's wife, the penalty would
be little more than a fine and the issuance of a "...half-hearted apology"
in most cases.
> It's fascinating stuff. Coincidentally, I'm working on
> some research along those lines right now.
I work in a healing academy. If I can be of any help, let me know!
Padraic
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Nicole Valicia
> Thompson-Andrews <
> [email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > The twins' history is that there feral. A healing
> academy doesn't seem
> > like the place for someone to learn a language. But
> wouldn't Yardish count
> > as a second language? And what's the issue with this
> critical period
> > theory, and how would effect their language
> development.
> >
> > Nicole Andrews
> >
> > Pen name Mellissa Green
> > Budding novelist
> > Tweet me
> >
> >
> >
> > @greenNovelist
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Dunn"
> <[email protected]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 1:14 AM
> > Subject: Re: YSL
> >
> >
> > What is believable in fiction is what is
> motivated by the characters'
> >> histories, their past actions, and the world you've
> built before you've
> >> begun writing. if everything is consistent
> and well-motivated, then
> >> readers will believe anything at all. But if
> it's not motivated, and not
> >> consistent, then readers will put the book down.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 12:08 AM, Nicole Valicia
> Thompson-Andrews <
> >> [email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> If I knew the answer, I wouldn't be asking. I
> don't know what would be
> >>> believable.
> >>>
> >>> Nicole Andrews
> >>>
> >>> Pen name Mellissa Green
> >>> Budding novelist
> >>> Tweet me
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> @greenNovelist
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eugene Oh"
> <[email protected]>
> >>> To: <[email protected]>
> >>> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 12:47 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: YSL
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Really, all these questions you're
> asking, you can decide for yourself -
> >>>
> >>>> and indeed you should, as they are creative
> decisions affecting the
> >>>> outcome
> >>>> of your artwork. Others can help with more
> technical things like how
> >>>> numbers tend to develop or what cases are,
> but a lot of language
> >>>> creation
> >>>> is up to you, particularly the back story
> of two presumably important
> >>>> figures, which all the more should be your
> territory as a budding
> >>>> novelist!
> >>>>
> >>>> Eugene
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>> On 13 Feb 2012, at 03:15, Nicole Valicia
> Thompson-Andrews <
> >>>> [email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Would Yardish be the feral twins
> second language? Would they learn teir
> >>>>
> >>>>> langugage at a healing academy?
> >>>>> Nicole Andrews
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Pen name Mellissa Green
> >>>>> Budding novelist
> >>>>> Tweet me
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> @greenNovelist
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick
> Dunn, is now available for
> >> order from Finishing Line
> >> Press<http://www.**finishinglinepress.com/**
> >> NewReleasesandForthcomingTitle**s.htm<http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
> >> >
> >> and
> >> Amazon<http://www.amazon.com/**Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/**
> >>
> 1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&**qid=1324342341&sr=8-2<http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2>>.
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now
> available for
> order from Finishing Line
> Press<http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
> and
> Amazon<http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2>.
>
Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________
5b. Re: YSL
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:36 pm ((PST))
It's possible for adults to learn a first language after reaching
adulthood. Susan Schaller, in "A man without words", describes a deaf man
who knew no language until he learned ASL after becoming an adult.
stevo
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Padraic Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
> --- On Mon, 2/13/12, Patrick Dunn <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > By the way, our world's "healing academies" teach a variety
> > of language --
> > a very simplified and badly abused mixture of Latin and
> > Greek.
>
> This is true, though it might actually be more complex than many people
> are aware.
>
> > Technically, it's a jargon, but it's a very complex and
> > well-developed jargon.
>
> Indeed. And it's not just the mumbo-jumbo Latin names for weecritters or
> obscure diseases. There are distinct turns of English phraseology that
> will never be uttered outside the walls of a healing academy. This jargon
> is very heavy on laterally and directionally oriented adverbs, I think
> far more than ordinary talk. Lots of acronyms and obscure abbreviations.
> Common talk phrases given new and peculiar meanings. Obscure references
> to luminaries of the art. Pretty nifty all around.
>
> > So a healing academy insisting that all of its
> > students learn
> > Yardish -- or Latin, or Greek, or Sanskrit, or Hebrew --
> > doesn't strike me
> > as at all unrealistic by our world's standards. But
> > you don't need our
> > world' standards at all; just state with enough authority
> > that such a thing
> > is the case in your world, and people will believe it.
>
> Of course.
>
> > Heck, begin the
> > novel with "Jorax took off his red, pointed healing hat and
> > fingered the
> > Plorax staff with his ritually mutilated left hand" and
> > people will quite
> > effortlessly incorporate the weirdness into their discourse
> > model.
>
> Ah. I take it Jorax must have come in contact with one of Old King
> Crowelle's merry olde laws on the practice of medicine. "Ye Chiugeons All
> do quake who do harme to any Man, lest harm be done to thee! For His
> High Majesty has said this: the surgeon which kill a man during the
> operation shall cause the own hand of his choosing, that is his left or
> right, to be cut off by the agency of his remaining handâ. It should be
> noted in all fairness, however, that the penalty for such a self
> mutilation is for the other hand to be âremoved in a manner liable to
> cause much grinding of bones and great howls of painâ.
>
> On the other hand (well, whatever hand or dangling part thereof that may
> be remaining...), medical malpractice rates were quite low indeed during
> Crowelle's reign.
>
> On the third hand, if the surgeon did in the man's wife, the penalty would
> be little more than a fine and the issuance of a "...half-hearted apology"
> in most cases.
>
> > It's fascinating stuff. Coincidentally, I'm working on
> > some research along those lines right now.
>
> I work in a healing academy. If I can be of any help, let me know!
>
> Padraic
>
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Nicole Valicia
> > Thompson-Andrews <
> > [email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > The twins' history is that there feral. A healing
> > academy doesn't seem
> > > like the place for someone to learn a language. But
> > wouldn't Yardish count
> > > as a second language? And what's the issue with this
> > critical period
> > > theory, and how would effect their language
> > development.
> > >
> > > Nicole Andrews
> > >
> > > Pen name Mellissa Green
> > > Budding novelist
> > > Tweet me
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > @greenNovelist
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Dunn"
> > <[email protected]>
> > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 1:14 AM
> > > Subject: Re: YSL
> > >
> > >
> > > What is believable in fiction is what is
> > motivated by the characters'
> > >> histories, their past actions, and the world you've
> > built before you've
> > >> begun writing. if everything is consistent
> > and well-motivated, then
> > >> readers will believe anything at all. But if
> > it's not motivated, and not
> > >> consistent, then readers will put the book down.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 12:08 AM, Nicole Valicia
> > Thompson-Andrews <
> > >> [email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> If I knew the answer, I wouldn't be asking. I
> > don't know what would be
> > >>> believable.
> > >>>
> > >>> Nicole Andrews
> > >>>
> > >>> Pen name Mellissa Green
> > >>> Budding novelist
> > >>> Tweet me
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> @greenNovelist
> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eugene Oh"
> > <[email protected]>
> > >>> To: <[email protected]>
> > >>> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 12:47 AM
> > >>> Subject: Re: YSL
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Really, all these questions you're
> > asking, you can decide for yourself -
> > >>>
> > >>>> and indeed you should, as they are creative
> > decisions affecting the
> > >>>> outcome
> > >>>> of your artwork. Others can help with more
> > technical things like how
> > >>>> numbers tend to develop or what cases are,
> > but a lot of language
> > >>>> creation
> > >>>> is up to you, particularly the back story
> > of two presumably important
> > >>>> figures, which all the more should be your
> > territory as a budding
> > >>>> novelist!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Eugene
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On 13 Feb 2012, at 03:15, Nicole Valicia
> > Thompson-Andrews <
> > >>>> [email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Would Yardish be the feral twins
> > second language? Would they learn teir
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> langugage at a healing academy?
> > >>>>> Nicole Andrews
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Pen name Mellissa Green
> > >>>>> Budding novelist
> > >>>>> Tweet me
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> @greenNovelist
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick
> > Dunn, is now available for
> > >> order from Finishing Line
> > >> Press<http://www.**finishinglinepress.com/**
> > >> NewReleasesandForthcomingTitle**s.htm<
> http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
> > >> >
> > >> and
> > >> Amazon<http://www.amazon.com/**Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/**
> > >>
> > 1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&**qid=1324342341&sr=8-2<
> http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2
> >>.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now
> > available for
> > order from Finishing Line
> > Press<
> http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
> > and
> > Amazon<
> http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2
> >.
> >
>
Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
6a. Babbling and Other Baby Talk
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:25 pm ((PST))
One last question, I promise, would feral children bable, and coo etc?
Nicole Andrews
Pen name Mellissa Green
Budding novelist
Tweet me
@greenNovelist
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
6b. Re: Babbling and Other Baby Talk
Posted by: "Scott Hlad" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:33 pm ((PST))
In my estimation, babbling and cooing would be normal for any child feral or
otherwise. That is the normal development of children.
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
Sent: February 13, 2012 5:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Babbling and Other Baby Talk
One last question, I promise, would feral children bable, and coo etc?
Nicole Andrews
Pen name Mellissa Green
Budding novelist
Tweet me
@greenNovelist
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
6c. Re: Babbling and Other Baby Talk
Posted by: "Ben Scerri" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:34 pm ((PST))
Depends on the age of the child. As Scott said, it is natural for babies
and young children to do so anyway, but 'feral' children, which have
actually been found, have shown no signs of cooing, nor babbling, but tend
to make other animalistic noises (barking, etc) depending on how they were
raised.
On 14 February 2012 11:37, Scott Hlad <[email protected]> wrote:
> In my estimation, babbling and cooing would be normal for any child feral
> or
> otherwise. That is the normal development of children.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
> Sent: February 13, 2012 5:25 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Babbling and Other Baby Talk
>
> One last question, I promise, would feral children bable, and coo etc?
> Nicole Andrews
>
> Pen name Mellissa Green
> Budding novelist
> Tweet me
>
>
>
> @greenNovelist
>
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
6d. Re: Babbling and Other Baby Talk
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:01 pm ((PST))
I think babies of deaf parents don't babble and coo aloud so much, since
they receive no aural reinforcement, but they do so manually if the parents
sign.
stevo
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 7:34 PM, Ben Scerri <[email protected]> wrote:
> Depends on the age of the child. As Scott said, it is natural for babies
> and young children to do so anyway, but 'feral' children, which have
> actually been found, have shown no signs of cooing, nor babbling, but tend
> to make other animalistic noises (barking, etc) depending on how they were
> raised.
>
> On 14 February 2012 11:37, Scott Hlad <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > In my estimation, babbling and cooing would be normal for any child feral
> > or
> > otherwise. That is the normal development of children.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[email protected]] On
> > Behalf Of Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
> > Sent: February 13, 2012 5:25 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Babbling and Other Baby Talk
> >
> > One last question, I promise, would feral children bable, and coo etc?
> > Nicole Andrews
> >
> > Pen name Mellissa Green
> > Budding novelist
> > Tweet me
> >
> >
> >
> > @greenNovelist
> >
>
Messages in this topic (4)
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