There are 8 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: THEORY: Loss of allophonic variation
From: BPJ
1b. Re: THEORY: Loss of allophonic variation
From: Alex Fink
2. multiple umlauts
From: neo gu
3. Attributives, Relative Clauses, and Coordinating Conjunctions
From: Logan Kearsley
4a. Re: Barbara Newhall Follett's artlang
From: Rich Harrison
4b. Re: Barbara Newhall Follett's artlang
From: Sam Stutter
5a. Re: Neoslavonic language tutorial - understandability
From: Vojtěch Merunka
6a. Re: Time for a Party! Teoskananvoti Dabolnea!
From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
Messages
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1a. Re: THEORY: Loss of allophonic variation
Posted by: "BPJ" [email protected]
Date: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:24 am ((PDT))
On 2012-03-26 02:46, Eric Christopherson wrote:
> Oh, yeah. Does anyone know how the*onset* of such a syllable was affected by
> the closedness of it?
Yes, that's what I described: if the syllable was closed
* A long consonant in the onset became short.
* Homorganic sonorant + single stop in the onset
became a long sonorant
E.g. nt > nn, rt > rr, lt > ll, mp > mm, ŋk > ŋŋ.
(/ŋ/ still occurs only long or before /k/!)
* A short (voiceless) stop in the onset became a voiced
fricative.
Apparently the onset, and probably also the nucleus,
became relatively shorter when there was a coda.
/bpj
Messages in this topic (8)
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1b. Re: THEORY: Loss of allophonic variation
Posted by: "Alex Fink" [email protected]
Date: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:40 am ((PDT))
On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:24:21 +0200, BPJ <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2012-03-26 02:46, Eric Christopherson wrote:
>> Oh, yeah. Does anyone know how the*onset* of such a syllable was
affected by the closedness of it?
>
>Yes, that's what I described: if the syllable was closed
>
[...]
>Apparently the onset, and probably also the nucleus,
>became relatively shorter when there was a coda.
Right, presumably the *how* of the matter was some sort of isochrony rule:
(non-initial) syllables were tendentially all kept at the same length (with
perhaps some exception for proto-long onsets). So if there was a coda
consonant, that entailed less room for the onset (or the V).
Alex
Messages in this topic (8)
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2. multiple umlauts
Posted by: "neo gu" [email protected]
Date: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:31 pm ((PDT))
The protolanguage syllables for Feb24 are strictly CV, with 4 vowel
phonemes (i, u, a, and @). Primary stress is on the 1st syllable while
secondary stress is on the 1st of a pair of syllables starting from the
right. There may be an unpaired syllable. The vowel of the 2nd syllable
of each pair is then deleted, with the 1st vowel umlauted according to
the deleted vowel. This results in 7 vowels which are then merged into
5 (i, e, a, o, and u). The net result is:
i-mutation: a > e, @ > e, u > i
u-mutation: @ > o, i > u
a-mutation: @ > a, i > e, u > o
deleted @ doesn't modify anything, but remaining @ > o in closed
syllables and > e in open ones.
examples:
*p@nut@-gu-ka > pontegok
*p@nut@-gu-tu-ka > pontoxtok
*p@nut@-gu-tu-ka-ra > pontoxtukar
I'm not sure how natural the multiple umlauts are. Any comments?
Messages in this topic (1)
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3. Attributives, Relative Clauses, and Coordinating Conjunctions
Posted by: "Logan Kearsley" [email protected]
Date: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:27 pm ((PDT))
Long have I pondered how to do adjectives in Mev Pailom; I've come up
with several different strategies for slightly different contexts, but
just in the last couple of days I've firmed up one last attribution
strategy that does not occur in any existing language that I know of
(so consider that an invitation to shout ANADEW!).
I was rather attracted to the Nahuatl strategy of noun apposition,
where adjectives are essentially nouns and you do attribution by just
putting a bunch of them together; so, "a big man" == "a big-thing a
man". Sadly, this would result in unacceptable syntactic ambiguity in
Mev Pailom with VAP word order and freely variable transitivity.
However, I already had a nice connective particle "eq", sort of a
phrase-level subordinating conjunction, which says "this phrase
modifies a following noun phrase", for use in much the same way as
using a noun in an adjective slot in English or using the "-ish"
noun->adjective derivation, so I thought "I'll just come up with
another connective particle with slightly different semantics" and
went and invented a particle (temporarily called "naq") that means
"these two phrases are co-referential".
I then thought "hey, that could be extended to be a generic
coordinating conjunction, not just for doing attribution in noun
phrases".
So, I now have a generic coordinating conjunction that means "the
things being coordinated are co-referential". Useful for appositives
and many other things. E.g.
"The president COREF Obama" == "President Obama"
"Great-thing COREF Alexander" == "Alexander the Great" (cf.
"Great-thing MOD Alexander" == "Alexander, who happens to be a great
guy")
"I broke COREF dropped the vase" == "I broke the vase by dropping it"
(dropping and breaking are different descriptions of the same actual
action)
"I fixed a bug COREF made my boss happy" == "I made my boss happy by
fixing a bug"
"I win COREF you lose" == "I win and you lose, and these are the same
thing" (cf. "I win this game and you lose that totally unrelated one")
This also turns out to be useful for distinguishing supplemental and
restrictive relative clauses:
"Monarch butterflies COREF what flies south in winter are pretty" =
"Monarch butterflies, which fly south in winter, are pretty."
"Butterflies what flies south in winter are pretty" = "Butterflies
that fly south in winter are pretty."
Which was a nice unintended consequence.
-l.
Messages in this topic (1)
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4a. Re: Barbara Newhall Follett's artlang
Posted by: "Rich Harrison" [email protected]
Date: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:42 pm ((PDT))
The webmaster over there has posted more about the language.
http://www.farksolia.org/a-few-notes-on-farksoo-and-a-farksoo-english-lexicon/
The text is heartbreakingly short, but here are a couple of excerpts:
light, jir; dark, fune; these words represent day and night, happiness and
[sadness], clearness and vagueness-- however, fune stands neither for
sadness or vagueness in a sad sense-- rather seriousness and quiet dimness.
there is a tense of wishing a thing might be, a sort of subjunctive, but
untranslatable in English-- an elusive, ideal consummation, a dream, highly
improbabl[e] or even impossible of realization. That tense is formed by the
suffix -ril to a verb. "The dream of my life would be to go there"-- na oparil.
Messages in this topic (4)
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4b. Re: Barbara Newhall Follett's artlang
Posted by: "Sam Stutter" [email protected]
Date: Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:24 am ((PDT))
Some of these definitions are beautiful: "vaido!" = run away and play with
butterflies. I can't (off the top of my head) think of any lang quite so...
girly. In a good way.
Sam Stutter
[email protected]
"No e na'l cu barri"
On 27 Mar 2012, at 02:41, Rich Harrison <[email protected]> wrote:
> The webmaster over there has posted more about the language.
>
> http://www.farksolia.org/a-few-notes-on-farksoo-and-a-farksoo-english-lexicon/
>
> The text is heartbreakingly short, but here are a couple of excerpts:
>
> light, jir; dark, fune; these words represent day and night, happiness and
> [sadness], clearness and vagueness-- however, fune stands neither for
> sadness or vagueness in a sad sense-- rather seriousness and quiet dimness.
>
> there is a tense of wishing a thing might be, a sort of subjunctive, but
> untranslatable in English-- an elusive, ideal consummation, a dream, highly
> improbabl[e] or even impossible of realization. That tense is formed by the
> suffix -ril to a verb. "The dream of my life would be to go there"-- na
> oparil.
Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Re: Neoslavonic language tutorial - understandability
Posted by: "Vojtěch Merunka" [email protected]
Date: Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:12 pm ((PDT))
Hello Nikolay!
We have more than 80% passive understandability - based on tests made
with slavophonic guests in Israeli hotels at the Dead See Coast. Here is
the description about this project in our newspaper:
http://izviestija.info/index.php/kultura/202-oasis
regards
VM
On 3/26/12 10:01 , Nikolay Ivankov wrote:
> Downloaded the book. Thanks!
>
> Everything looks pretty much readable, though I have some practical skills
> in Church Slavonic, so that this can make some things
> more understandable for me.
>
> On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 6:49 PM, Vojtěch Merunka<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hello conlangers!
>>
>> This is the on-line English tutorial of the Neoslavonic language (NS),
>> which is a non-commercial project made for the Interslavic community.
>> Neoslavonic is a zonal constructed language made to facilitate direct
>> communication between speakers of Slavic languages group.
>>
>> http://tutorial.neoslavonic.**org<http://tutorial.neoslavonic.org>
>>
>> regards
>> Vojta Merunka
>>
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*assoc. prof. Vojtěch Merunka, Ph.D.*
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
http://sites.google.com/site/vmerunka
*Department of Information Engineering*
/Faculty of Economics and Management/
Czech University of Life Sciences in Prague
*Department of Software Engineering in Economy*
/Faculty of Nuclear Sciences and Physical Engineering/
Czech Technical University in Prague
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages in this topic (3)
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6a. Re: Time for a Party! Teoskananvoti Dabolnea!
Posted by: "Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets" [email protected]
Date: Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:05 am ((PDT))
On 25 March 2012 04:32, Padraic Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Oh, I know that, but it still doesn't help feeling
> > inadequate when others
> > complain of their "small" vocabulary and quote 4-figure
> > numbers :/ .
>
> (: Well, unless I'm mistaken, Moten is not an IE or Romance language (for
> example), which makes word generation an almost trivial matter in many
> instances.
>
>
True, Moten is completely a priori (or, according to the fiction
surrounding it, an isolate spoken by a single, amnesiac man). It does have
borrowings, but those make sense according to the story behind it :) . In
any case, it does make it hard work to come up with acceptable words...
>
> I'd quite forgotten about that one! (I had to look back through every
> relay page I could find, only to discover that twas Relay #1!) I recall
> now, the poetry without verbs. Kind of fill in the blank verse.
>
>
Yeah, that was a long time ago! :P
> Jemnon, lovely!
>
>
Yeah, that one survived the change, both parts still mean the same thing :P
.
> Hopefully, as Moten's lexicon increases, its penchant for metaphor won't
> decrease!
>
>
Don't worry, it's getting built up in the dictionary. Look for instance at
the list of glosses for the stem _eksa_:
- to touch
- to hit
- to meet by chance
- to run into
- to encounter
Moten speakers seem to like polysemy and ambiguous utterances, so the use
of metaphors won't diminish. Growing the vocabulary will only allow more of
those! :)
>
> Guess I should also add bouôn annivèrsaithe!
>
>
Thanks! It was a great day to have a birthday, we enjoyed the garden all
afternoon! :)
--
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
Messages in this topic (13)
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