There are 8 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: VERY URGENT : Saarland Radio is looking for some Saarlander who
From: Roman Rausch
1b. Re: VERY URGENT : Saarland Radio is looking for some Saarlander who
From: Olivier Simon
1c. Re: VERY URGENT : Saarland Radio is looking for some Saarlander who
From: Roman Rausch
2a. Typographic Bliss
From: Gary Shannon
2b. Re: Typographic Bliss
From: MorphemeAddict
2c. Re: Typographic Bliss
From: Rebecca Bettencourt
2d. Re: Typographic Bliss
From: Patrick Dunn
3a. Re: Not really a conlang...
From: Jeffrey Brown
Messages
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1a. Re: VERY URGENT : Saarland Radio is looking for some Saarlander who
Posted by: "Roman Rausch" [email protected]
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2013 6:39 am ((PST))
>No, that's no joke, that's a radio game :
>http://www.sr-online.de/sronline/sr1/aktionen/wer_held_dagegen102.html
>There is a bet on that radio station SR1 ; if someone can sing "I should be so
>lucky" (the refrain of Kylie Minogue song) in Quenya before tomorrow morning
>(German
>hour) and phone to the radio, he can win 250 €.
Here is the result:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jXSUHnmQ7E
I thought the challenge was to translate the text as well, which would have
made it more difficult, but it looks like they had translations into Quenya and
Sindarin already. They used 'happy' instead of 'lucky' by the way - there is no
attested word for 'lucky' in either language.
I actually know someone from Saarland who could have translated it, but oh
well...
Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Re: VERY URGENT : Saarland Radio is looking for some Saarlander who
Posted by: "Olivier Simon" [email protected]
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2013 9:44 am ((PST))
In fact, I could get in touch with the radio yesterday, but they said I
couldn't count for the bet as I am from Lorraine, not from Saarland.
However, they acknowledged my efforts and said me they may send me a few CDs as
a reward.
Indeed, my recording was played this morning (around 6:30) on Kylie Minogue's
music !
As I don't speak fluently Quenya nor Sindarin, I could just realise that the
two winners's versions were different from mine. The boy used "valin", which I
discarded because Tolkien used it later with a meaning of "power" (cf : the
Valar).
Here is below, in German, the copy-pasted version of my translation I sent to
SR1.
(P.S. : I have just gotten a reply from Ch. Balser, the presenter who made the
bet on SR1, who has sent me a version by a German specialist :
< Hier - falls Du magst - zur weiteren Vertiefung Deines Hobbys mal die
Übersetzung, die uns der Autor
des Buches "Elbisch: Grammatik, Schrift und Wörterbuch der Elben-Sprache von
J.R.R. Tolkien" Helmut W. Pesch angefertigt hat:
"Nai haryuvanye mána – mána, mána, mána
Yé haryuvanye mána melmenen">
Indeed, I can't agree with the use of "hary-" here as it means "possess", and
Tolkien had once written :
"In MR:228, Tolkien notes
that "no Elf would speak of possessing children; he would say: 'three
children have been added unto me', or 'are with me', or 'are in my
house'."
Olivier
Auf Quenya gibt es keinen Konjunktiv II wie auf Deutsch (ich wäre, ich würde
sein) noch keinen Conditionnel wie auf Französisch (je serais); oder es hat
einen gegeben, aber er ist in Tolkiens Büchern nicht belegt (da der Professor
keine vollständige Grammatik noch kein richtiges Wörterbuch geschrieben hat,
ist unsre Kenntnis der elbischen und sonstigen mittelirdischen Sprachen sehr
mangelhaft).
Zum Glück kennen wir eine "Wunschpartikel", die mit dem Futurum benutzt werden
soll : "ich hoffe dass ich werde...") = "nai"
"I werde sein/I will be" = nauvan
"Nai nauvan" = "I should be "
Auf Quenya; "Glück; joy, happiness" = alassë ; Die Endung für Adjektive ist
"a" (wie "ig" auf Deutsch).
So, "alassëa" = "glücklich"
"so(viel)", "so much" ist uns nicht, soweit ich weiss, überliefert worden. Die
Quenya Grammatik gibt uns eine "Intensiv-Partikel" "an-" (z.B; "calima" =
"bright", "ancalima" = "very bright").
So kriegt man : "analassëa" = "so glücklich" ("an" ist wie "-issimo" auf
Italienisch; "beatissimo" aus "beato" = "glücklich")
"Liebe" = "melmë"; Quenya hat viele Deklinationen, unter denen einen "Lokativ"
(einen Fall für Ortsangaben).
Die Lokativ-endung ist "essë"
Fast alle Buchstaben werden wie im Deutschen ausgesprochen, nur "v" = "w" (oder
wie "v" auf Französisch)
"e" wird immer wie im Wort "er" ausgesprochen.
Nai nauvan analassëa,
alassëa, alassëa, alassëa
Nai nauvan analassëa melmessë
Messages in this topic (4)
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1c. Re: VERY URGENT : Saarland Radio is looking for some Saarlander who
Posted by: "Roman Rausch" [email protected]
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2013 12:15 pm ((PST))
> thought the challenge was to translate the text as well, which would have
> made it more difficult, but it looks like they had translations
>into Quenya and Sindarin already.
Oh no, my mistake - they did translate it themselves. Then I stand in amazement
of the degree of pervasion of Elvish in Saarland…
>The boy used "valin", which I discarded because Tolkien used it later with a
>meaning of "power" (cf : the Valar).
I'd do so too, for the same reason.
>Indeed, I can't agree with the use of "hary-" here as it means "possess"
This usage is actually attested in _merin sa haryalye alasse_. Well,
probably... Look here:
http://www.elvish.org/elm/merin.html
>Yé haryuvanye mána melmenen
>Nai nauvan analassëa melmessë
That's at least two correct translations (although the latter doesn't seem to
fit the metre..), so they'd win in my book. ;-)
On the radio, the guy sang Quenya _Nye óran valin melmesse_ where _or-_ should
be an impersonal verb (and Quenya <y> should be pronounced [j], not [y]); and
Sindarin _Ae boe nin alwed ni vereth_ (?) which I understand as 'I have to be
happy at a feast'. :-) The girl I couldn't understand at all except for _heren_
'fortune'.
Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Typographic Bliss
Posted by: "Gary Shannon" [email protected]
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2013 10:51 am ((PST))
Now that Unicode is available to the world, we have a large range of
interesting typographic squiggles that can be used in a conlang
orthography. So what if various Unicode squiggles were chosen to
represent the symbols in Blissymbolics? Then we'd have a type-able
version of Bliss that might look something like this (to pick a few
random arbitrary examples from the first few pages of the Bliss book.)
Π (door)
>Π (entrance)
Π> (exit)
!Π> (emergency exit)
─ (earth)
O (sun)
Ω (day)
Ω5 (Thursday)
Ҁ (knife, cut)
/Ҁ (plow (earth knife))
Ш (grain)
ҀШ (harvest)
Λ (man)
Δ (woman)
A (person)
A1 (I, me)
A2 (you)
Î (pen, write)
Ξ (letter, note, memo)
> (to, toward, in the dirction of)
A1 Î Ξ > A2 (I write letter to you)
≈ (water)
Ж (medicine)
ЖΛ (doctor)
<o> (eye, see, look)
Just a random brain dump in search of feedback.
--gary
Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: Typographic Bliss
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2013 2:46 pm ((PST))
Reminds me of the "native" Unicode symbols for Toki Pona.
It'd be cool to have a typeable Bliss system.
stevo
On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
> Now that Unicode is available to the world, we have a large range of
> interesting typographic squiggles that can be used in a conlang
> orthography. So what if various Unicode squiggles were chosen to
> represent the symbols in Blissymbolics? Then we'd have a type-able
> version of Bliss that might look something like this (to pick a few
> random arbitrary examples from the first few pages of the Bliss book.)
>
> Π (door)
> >Π (entrance)
> Π> (exit)
> !Π> (emergency exit)
> ─ (earth)
> O (sun)
> Ω (day)
> Ω5 (Thursday)
> Ҁ (knife, cut)
> /Ҁ (plow (earth knife))
> Ш (grain)
> ҀШ (harvest)
> Λ (man)
> Δ (woman)
> A (person)
> A1 (I, me)
> A2 (you)
> Î (pen, write)
> Ξ (letter, note, memo)
> > (to, toward, in the dirction of)
>
> A1 Î Ξ > A2 (I write letter to you)
>
> ≈ (water)
> Ж (medicine)
> ЖΛ (doctor)
> <o> (eye, see, look)
>
> Just a random brain dump in search of feedback.
>
> --gary
>
Messages in this topic (4)
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2c. Re: Typographic Bliss
Posted by: "Rebecca Bettencourt" [email protected]
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2013 3:00 pm ((PST))
There is a submitted proposal for Blissymbols in Unicode, but it hasn't
been accepted yet:
http://std.dkuug.dk/JTC1/SC2/WG2/docs/n1866.pdf
On Feb 5, 2013 2:46 PM, "MorphemeAddict" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Reminds me of the "native" Unicode symbols for Toki Pona.
> It'd be cool to have a typeable Bliss system.
>
> stevo
>
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Now that Unicode is available to the world, we have a large range of
> > interesting typographic squiggles that can be used in a conlang
> > orthography. So what if various Unicode squiggles were chosen to
> > represent the symbols in Blissymbolics? Then we'd have a type-able
> > version of Bliss that might look something like this (to pick a few
> > random arbitrary examples from the first few pages of the Bliss book.)
> >
> > Π (door)
> > >Π (entrance)
> > Π> (exit)
> > !Π> (emergency exit)
> > ─ (earth)
> > O (sun)
> > Ω (day)
> > Ω5 (Thursday)
> > Ҁ (knife, cut)
> > /Ҁ (plow (earth knife))
> > Ш (grain)
> > ҀШ (harvest)
> > Λ (man)
> > Δ (woman)
> > A (person)
> > A1 (I, me)
> > A2 (you)
> > Î (pen, write)
> > Ξ (letter, note, memo)
> > > (to, toward, in the dirction of)
> >
> > A1 Î Ξ > A2 (I write letter to you)
> >
> > ≈ (water)
> > Ж (medicine)
> > ЖΛ (doctor)
> > <o> (eye, see, look)
> >
> > Just a random brain dump in search of feedback.
> >
> > --gary
> >
>
Messages in this topic (4)
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2d. Re: Typographic Bliss
Posted by: "Patrick Dunn" [email protected]
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2013 3:09 pm ((PST))
I saw the subject line and was hoping to discover a spiritually fulfilling
font, but this is good too.
On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
> Now that Unicode is available to the world, we have a large range of
> interesting typographic squiggles that can be used in a conlang
> orthography. So what if various Unicode squiggles were chosen to
> represent the symbols in Blissymbolics? Then we'd have a type-able
> version of Bliss that might look something like this (to pick a few
> random arbitrary examples from the first few pages of the Bliss book.)
>
> Π (door)
> >Π (entrance)
> Π> (exit)
> !Π> (emergency exit)
> ─ (earth)
> O (sun)
> Ω (day)
> Ω5 (Thursday)
> Ҁ (knife, cut)
> /Ҁ (plow (earth knife))
> Ш (grain)
> ҀШ (harvest)
> Λ (man)
> Δ (woman)
> A (person)
> A1 (I, me)
> A2 (you)
> Î (pen, write)
> Ξ (letter, note, memo)
> > (to, toward, in the dirction of)
>
> A1 Î Ξ > A2 (I write letter to you)
>
> ≈ (water)
> Ж (medicine)
> ЖΛ (doctor)
> <o> (eye, see, look)
>
> Just a random brain dump in search of feedback.
>
> --gary
>
--
Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now available for
order from Finishing Line
Press<http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
and
Amazon<http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2>.
Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: Not really a conlang...
Posted by: "Jeffrey Brown" [email protected]
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2013 12:05 pm ((PST))
Ray Brown said:
> Division of the universe into things masculine & things
> feminine is one of the features of Romancelangs and of
> Insular Celtic. But I would not expect such an _arbitrary_
> system to be retained in a _simplified_ Romance conlang or
> Celtic conlang. Learning arbitrary gender distinctions for
> non living things does not make a language simple.
and J�rg Rhiemeier added:
> Indeed not, and thus most auxlangs have abandoned them.
If Sim-Arabic were intended as an auxlang, then I would have dropped
gender. Since it�s aimed at �Westerners,� and since most SAE-langs have
gender, I thought it wouldn�t be difficult, and it makes the �conversion�
from Arabic to Sim-Arabic (or back again) a lot easier.
Jeffrey
Messages in this topic (17)
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