There are 15 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Are there any conventions for issuing a proposed extension to co
From: Patrick Dunn
1b. Re: Are there any conventions for issuing a proposed extension to co
From: R A Brown
1c. Re: Are there any conventions for issuing a proposed extension to co
From: R A Brown
1d. Re: Are there any conventions for issuing a proposed extension to co
From: George Corley
2a. Spam and Other Tasty Things was Re: [CONLANG] [email protected]
From: Padraic Brown
2b. Re: Spam and Other Tasty Things was Re: [CONLANG] [email protected]
From: H. S. Teoh
3a. How to choose the name of a conlang?
From: Leonardo Castro
3b. Re: How to choose the name of a conlang?
From: H. S. Teoh
3c. Re: How to choose the name of a conlang?
From: Herman Miller
4a. Re: Of Elves and Mountains (Hesperic etymologies)
From: Olivier Simon
4b. Re: Of Elves and Mountains (Hesperic etymologies)
From: BPJ
5a. Re: Online Moten Dictionary
From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
5b. Re: Online Moten Dictionary
From: George Corley
6a. Re: OT: Math with roman numerals (Was: Do people ever make variant n
From: Elena ``of Valhalla''
6b. Re: OT: Math with roman numerals (Was: Do people ever make variant n
From: George Corley
Messages
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1a. Re: Are there any conventions for issuing a proposed extension to co
Posted by: "Patrick Dunn" [email protected]
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2013 5:13 pm ((PST))
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 6:54 PM, MorphemeAddict <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 5:42 PM, Matthew George <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 5:16 PM, MorphemeAddict <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > I once proposed a new tense for Esperanto, using an ending "-es", to
> > > represent events outside the event cone of relativity.
> > > http://www.lojban.org/files/papers/4thtense
> > > It didn't go over well.
> > >
> >
> > That does seem like an odd thing to represent in the fundamental grammar
> of
> > a language. What purpose did you have, that talking about extra-reality
> > events was crucial?
> >
>
> Another possibility for the use of a new tense was an "unspecified tense",
> as I understand Greek aorist to be, or as described in Rick Morneau's
> Latejami. There are lots of things about Latejami that I think should be
> part of a good language.
>
>
Well, in finite verbs the aorist certainly has a definite tense, namely the
past. But in imperatives, infinitives and subjunctive/optative forms, as
well as participles, it often has more a sense of aspect.
ὁ παῖς ἔγραψε τὰ γράμματα.
The boy write.AOR the letters
The boy wrote the letters.
γραψας τὰ γράμματα ὁ παῖς καλῶς μανθάνει.
having.written the letters the boy beautifully learns.
The boy, having written his letters, learns beautifully.
Or:
γράφε
Write (and keep on writing)
γράψσον
Write (and finish writing).
Messages in this topic (15)
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1b. Re: Are there any conventions for issuing a proposed extension to co
Posted by: "R A Brown" [email protected]
Date: Fri Mar 8, 2013 12:45 am ((PST))
On 08/03/2013 01:13, Patrick Dunn wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 6:54 PM, MorphemeAddict wrote:
[snip]
>> Another possibility for the use of a new tense was an
>> "unspecified tense", as I understand Greek aorist to
>> be, or as described in Rick Morneau's Latejami. There
>> are lots of things about Latejami that I think should
>> be part of a good language.
>>
>>
> Well, in finite verbs the aorist certainly has a
> definite tense, namely the past. But in imperatives,
> infinitives and subjunctive/optative forms, as well as
> participles, it often has more a sense of aspect.
Delete "often has more." "Aorist" essentially =
_perfective_ (*not* perfect, which is a different thing).
Only the indicative 'tenses' show time distinction: past -
non-past. A non-past aorist indicative could, in theory,
have been used to denote a future perfective as, e.g. in
Russian. Instead the ancient developed future system which
didn't fit too well with the imperfective ("present stem") ~
perfective ("aorist stem") system.
The modern Greek has scrapped the ancient futures; it now
has an imperfective future (θα [tha] + "present
subjunctive", i.e. imperfective non-past) and perfective
future (θα [tha] + "aorist subjunctive", i.e. perfective
non-past).
In both the ancient and modern language, as there is only
one tense (in the proper meaning of the word) for the
indicative aorist, i.e. _past_, the 'past aorist indicative'
is often simply called 'the aorist [indicative].'
There isn't an "unspecified tense" in Greek, whether ancient
or modern, nor am I clear what sort of meaning it would have
had.
======================================================
On 07/03/2013 22:42, Matthew George wrote:
[snip]
>
> Even in the simplest scenarios involving time travel,
> you can no longer speak of the past or future as
> something that will be the same for everyone and
> everything. Instead of an absolute perspective, it's
> relative. So grammar that permits only that absolute
> view excludes most possibilities. And alternate time
> lines? Forget it.
Adding extra "tenses" IMO is going to make the situation
even more complicated. It would seem to me better to follow
Chinese and scrap tenses, and verbs only (optionally) to
show aspectual difference.
But there's no way I'd interfere with Esperanto.
--
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
"language … began with half-musical unanalysed expressions
for individual beings and events."
[Otto Jespersen, Progress in Language, 1895]
Messages in this topic (15)
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1c. Re: Are there any conventions for issuing a proposed extension to co
Posted by: "R A Brown" [email protected]
Date: Fri Mar 8, 2013 12:57 am ((PST))
On 07/03/2013 21:09, Gary Shannon wrote:
> Give it a different name and call it a separate language
> descended from (or inspired by) Esperanto. For example:
> Romániço (inspired by Esperanto, but not a descendant of
> it) http://www.romaniczo.com/en_cuestionos.html
>
Dr Outis has asked me to inform you all that he is _not_ to
be confused with the Οὖτις who invites you to ask about
Romániço. Dr Outis, of course, stuck to the traditional
Οὔτις spelling in Greek.
"Who is Dr Outis?" some may ask. See:
http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Outis/index.html
:-)
--
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
"language … began with half-musical unanalysed expressions
for individual beings and events."
[Otto Jespersen, Progress in Language, 1895]
Messages in this topic (15)
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1d. Re: Are there any conventions for issuing a proposed extension to co
Posted by: "George Corley" [email protected]
Date: Fri Mar 8, 2013 1:01 am ((PST))
On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 2:45 AM, R A Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> On 07/03/2013 22:42, Matthew George wrote:
> [snip]
>
>
>> Even in the simplest scenarios involving time travel,
>> you can no longer speak of the past or future as
>> something that will be the same for everyone and
>> everything. Instead of an absolute perspective, it's
>> relative. So grammar that permits only that absolute
>> view excludes most possibilities. And alternate time
>> lines? Forget it.
>>
>
> Adding extra "tenses" IMO is going to make the situation
> even more complicated. It would seem to me better to follow
> Chinese and scrap tenses, and verbs only (optionally) to
> show aspectual difference.
>
The main issue is that, in the real world, we will rarely even need to deal
with this scenario because time travel does not exist (and may indeed may
be impossible). I don't see much point in optimizing a language for a
specialized domain that many people will never use.
If you were making Gallifreyan, you might need this. Esperanto won't
though, unless you are writing some fiction with Esperantist time travelers.
> But there's no way I'd interfere with Esperanto.
Why not? Esperanto is effectively a living language. It was always
intended to be a community project, and I don't think Zamenhof would mind
people tinkering with it, as he didn't really mind when he was alive.
Messages in this topic (15)
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2a. Spam and Other Tasty Things was Re: [CONLANG] [email protected]
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2013 6:43 pm ((PST))
Funny you should mention. This is actually a Talarian delicacy (ordinary
delicacy, nòt what you'd find around Yule!, and therefore rather edible):
qarmâcamtâcalcaryyâlffrûcâsaltôhaxwiotâmtâsumtôspamtraspaltaxowyyârramffi
qarmâ-camtâ-calcar âlffrûcâ-saltôs haxwio-tâmtâ-sumtôs
pamtra-spalta-xowyyani-hamffi
karma-happiness-bowl-all-meat-spicy.paste-serpentine-meat-smoky-five-
wonderful-egg-around
So, something like "happy dish containing Spam brand meat paste, smoked
bacon and five-egg-dish".
Difficulty: Talarians don't have a specific word for "meat". The above
could, if uttered in the proper universe, translate an entirely vegetarian
meal: âlffrûcâ-saltôs can refer to something like Spam, or sausage or
even goober paste or vegemite. They also don't have a word for bacon.
haxwio-tâmtâ-sumtôs literally means "snake-shaped meat/nuts/fruit/bread
smoked", so could refer to bacon, or could refer to (smoked!) fruit roll-
ups or even (smoked!) pretzels.
In and of itself, pamtra-spalta-xowyyar refers to a particular Talarian
egg dish, something like quiche, and as you have probably figured out by
now, it made with five different kinds of eggs. Usually, different kinds
of chicken eggs, but duck (non-balutified!), goose or what-have-you are
all fair game. The cheese will generally be some sort of bovine, though
camel, goat or even oliphant are not outside the realm of possibility.
Padraic
--- On Thu, 3/7/13, H. S. Teoh <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: H. S. Teoh <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [CONLANG] [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Thursday, March 7, 2013, 6:43 PM
> On Thu, Mar 07, 2013 at 03:06:07PM
> -0800, Gary Shannon wrote:
> > Spam, Spam, eggs, bacon, and Spam.
>
> ObConlang: how do you express the above in your conlang?
> ;-)
>
>
> T
>
> --
> PNP = Plug 'N' Pray
>
Messages in this topic (11)
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2b. Re: Spam and Other Tasty Things was Re: [CONLANG] [email protected]
Posted by: "H. S. Teoh" [email protected]
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2013 8:17 pm ((PST))
On Thu, Mar 07, 2013 at 06:43:51PM -0800, Padraic Brown wrote:
> Funny you should mention. This is actually a Talarian delicacy
> (ordinary delicacy, nòt what you'd find around Yule!, and therefore
> rather edible):
>
> qarmâcamtâcalcaryyâlffrûcâsaltôhaxwiotâmtâsumtôspamtraspaltaxowyyârramffi
>
> qarmâ-camtâ-calcar âlffrûcâ-saltôs haxwio-tâmtâ-sumtôs
> pamtra-spalta-xowyyani-hamffi
>
> karma-happiness-bowl-all-meat-spicy.paste-serpentine-meat-smoky-five-
> wonderful-egg-around
>
> So, something like "happy dish containing Spam brand meat paste,
> smoked bacon and five-egg-dish".
Whoa. That's a quite a mouthful of a dish name! (pun intended :-P)
> Difficulty: Talarians don't have a specific word for "meat". The above
> could, if uttered in the proper universe, translate an entirely
> vegetarian meal: âlffrûcâ-saltôs can refer to something like Spam, or
> sausage or even goober paste or vegemite. They also don't have a word
> for bacon. haxwio-tâmtâ-sumtôs literally means "snake-shaped
> meat/nuts/fruit/bread smoked", so could refer to bacon, or could refer
> to (smoked!) fruit roll- ups or even (smoked!) pretzels.
[...]
And in the Ferochromon (the universe where Ebisédian is spoken), it
might as well refer to something that's neither meat nor vegetable...
:-P
T
--
English is useful because it is a mess. Since English is a mess, it maps
well onto the problem space, which is also a mess, which we call
reality. Similarly, Perl was designed to be a mess, though in the
nicests of all possible ways. -- Larry Wall
Messages in this topic (11)
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3a. How to choose the name of a conlang?
Posted by: "Leonardo Castro" [email protected]
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2013 8:01 pm ((PST))
I can't decide a name of the language I have been sketching for a long
time. Those are some patterns of language name I have recognized:
A. "language-spoken-by-people-X": English, Français, Português,
tlhIngan Hol (?), etc.
B. "good language": Toki Pona, Nhengatu, etc.
C. "universal/international/World language": Mundolinco,
Universalglot, Interlingua, etc.
D. some nice sounding word: Esperanto, any other?
E. a name related to the features of the language: Lojban, Loglan...
F. "language-of-person-X": Xorban, any other?
I don't remember any example of the following:
G. "this-language-I'm-speaking-right-now": this could be done with a
specific pronoun.
Which one do you prefer? Does your conlang name fit one of these patterns?
Até mais!
Leonardo
Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: How to choose the name of a conlang?
Posted by: "H. S. Teoh" [email protected]
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2013 8:40 pm ((PST))
On Fri, Mar 08, 2013 at 01:00:54AM -0300, Leonardo Castro wrote:
> I can't decide a name of the language I have been sketching for a long
> time. Those are some patterns of language name I have recognized:
>
> A. "language-spoken-by-people-X": English, Français, Português,
> tlhIngan Hol (?), etc.
These are in the category of "what others call your language". There's
also the question of how the speakers of your language would refer to
it, or to themselves. Examples along these lines would be things like
"speech", "common speech", "words", "tongue", etc..
> B. "good language": Toki Pona, Nhengatu, etc.
> C. "universal/international/World language": Mundolinco,
> Universalglot, Interlingua, etc.
> D. some nice sounding word: Esperanto, any other?
> E. a name related to the features of the language: Lojban, Loglan...
> F. "language-of-person-X": Xorban, any other?
>
> I don't remember any example of the following:
>
> G. "this-language-I'm-speaking-right-now": this could be done with a
> specific pronoun.
>
> Which one do you prefer? Does your conlang name fit one of these
> patterns?
[...]
Ebisédian, my 1st conlang, is not a native name of the language; it's an
English derivation from 3bis33'di (ɜbisɜˉdi for you Unicode-enabled
people), which simply means "people" (plural form of "person"), hence,
the language of the people.
Tatari Faran, my 2nd conlang, is actually a proper native name; it means
"speech of Fara". Fara means "the plain" -- the base of a large caldera
where the people of Fara live.
So here you have it, one is an external name, and the other is internal.
I don't know which I *prefer*... generally, a language that has little
or no outside contact will not have its own name, since there is no
reason for the speakers of the language to even conceive of multiple
languages in the first place -- it would simply be *the* language. OTOH,
languages with lots of outside contact would generally acquire an
external name from the foreign peoples, or develop their own name as a
way of distinguishing themselves from the foreign peoples.
Auxlangs, OTOH, will tend to have an engineered name for whatever
purpose they are slated for. ;-)
T
--
That's not a bug; that's a feature!
Messages in this topic (3)
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3c. Re: How to choose the name of a conlang?
Posted by: "Herman Miller" [email protected]
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2013 8:48 pm ((PST))
On 3/7/2013 11:00 PM, Leonardo Castro wrote:
> I can't decide a name of the language I have been sketching for a long
> time. Those are some patterns of language name I have recognized:
>
> A. "language-spoken-by-people-X": English, Français, Português,
> tlhIngan Hol (?), etc.
> B. "good language": Toki Pona, Nhengatu, etc.
> C. "universal/international/World language": Mundolinco,
> Universalglot, Interlingua, etc.
> D. some nice sounding word: Esperanto, any other?
> E. a name related to the features of the language: Lojban, Loglan...
> F. "language-of-person-X": Xorban, any other?
>
> I don't remember any example of the following:
>
> G. "this-language-I'm-speaking-right-now": this could be done with a
> specific pronoun.
>
> Which one do you prefer? Does your conlang name fit one of these patterns?
A ("language spoken by people X") is pretty common, as in "Yasaro" (the
language of the people of the Yasar region) or "Tirelat" (language of
the Tihr people, inhabitants of Tirevor). Originally, though, "Tirelat"
was named after a kind of bird (a wren). Later I changed the word for
"wren", but kept the original name for the language.
C. "Ludiréo", "world language".
D. "Minza" is named after the Tirelat word for "bridge" (mindza).
E. "Eklektu" was a rather eclectic language, borrowing words from all
over the place. "Sarbleski" meant "new secret writing".
Many names are essentially without any known meaning, like "Lindiga" or
"Zharranh". For a time I thought there might be a connection between
"Lindiga" and the "Verrilin" people (with the common element "lin"), but
currently I've got Lindiga as a Sangari language.
Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: Of Elves and Mountains (Hesperic etymologies)
Posted by: "Olivier Simon" [email protected]
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2013 11:23 pm ((PST))
I rather think that "alp(es)" is a word older than the arrival of
Indo-Europeans in Europe. It may mean something like "mountain meadow" (cf.
French "alpage"), or simply "mountain".
Some have tried to connect it with the antique name of Gibraltar, famous for
being clustered atop a rock : Calpe (from * (k)alpe ?)
Olivier
Messages in this topic (4)
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4b. Re: Of Elves and Mountains (Hesperic etymologies)
Posted by: "BPJ" [email protected]
Date: Fri Mar 8, 2013 12:24 am ((PST))
Do you know that the Romance language of the western Alps apparently have
the opposite change at least before labials (and perhaps elsewhere. The
language autonym is Arpitan and Mons Silvius has become Cervin
(Matterhorn).
/bpj
Den tisdagen den 5:e mars 2013 skrev Jörg Rhiemeier:
> Hallo conlangers!
>
> I have a new Hesperic etymological finding to report.
>
> On New Year's Day, I had written:
>
> > Also, Alpianic
> > *alp- 'mountain' looks like a regular descendant of PH *xalb-,
> > perhaps from the notion that high mountains (such as those of
> > the Alps where Alpianic languages are spoken) are snow-capped
> > and thus "white".
>
> Actually, this is wrong. The Alpianic reflex of PH *xalb- is
> *ôpa 'ancestor'. The word *alpa 'mountain' is a cognate of
> Old Albic _arb_ < PH *xarb 'hill, mountain' (the shift *r > *l,
> counterfeeding *al > *ô, is regular before stops). This is in
> turn an extended form of the PH root *xar- 'high' (cf. Old Albic
> _ar_ 'high', _aran_ 'up'). So no connection between Elves and
> mountains, despite the similarities of the words.
>
> --
> ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
> http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
> "Bêsel asa Éam, a Éam atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Éamal." - SiM 1:1
>
Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Re: Online Moten Dictionary
Posted by: "Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets" [email protected]
Date: Fri Mar 8, 2013 12:11 am ((PST))
On 7 March 2013 14:02, A. da Mek <[email protected]> wrote:
> ly and ny seem to me intuitive enough for palatals; these digraphs are used
> for example in Hungarian.
>
True enough.
> But if the palatals and affricates shall be marked alike, then anything
> intuitive for the first pair will be unintuitive for the second pair.
>
Exactly! Which is why I stuck with the pipe.
> Maybe l̉ n̉ s̉ z̉ could work; this hook may remind an apostrophe which is
> sometimes used to mark palatalisation and sometimes for a glottal stop,
> which in a combination with a fricative could suggest the plosive onset of
> an affricate.
>
Gah! l̉ is ugly!
>
>
> In the end, I decided to stick with the pipe.
>>
>
> There is one disadvantage of non-letter characters - Google does not
> recognize such string as one word.
>
It's Google's loss, not mine :P .
> I considered to use <è èh àh òh> instead of <¨ ¨h ªh ºh> which I am now
> writing for [?], [h], [X\] and [?\], but a text with è used as a consonat
> looks like a file with č written in the Central European codepage and then
> misinterpreted as the Western codepage.
> It is difficult to find some letter for the glottal stop. The letter з may
> remind the glyph used by Egyptologists to transcribe the glottal stop, but
> most people would probably read з either as [Z] or [dz)].
>
I would personally read it as a vowel, but that's me :P .
On 7 March 2013 17:49, BPJ <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Too much mouse-pointing and menu-mucking for my taste.
>
Toolbox has lots of keyboard shortcuts :P .
> I'm basically a plain-text guy. Besides I can sort any
> which way me pleases (almost) from within perl:
>
>
I'm more a GUI person myself. I like using the keyboard as much as
possible, but love to be able to fall back on using the mouse if I forget
commands.
> <https://metacpan.org/module/Sort::ArbBiLex>
>
> You'll notice it's by the same author. He used to be
> *the* linguist on the CPAN. BTW I have an object-
> oriented wrapper around this module which allows you to
> define a sort-key generating function, chuse the
> normalization form to use during sort[^1], return
> objects which can tell their string value as well as
> their sort key and their family rather than as plain
> strings -- although they stringify to their string
> values! -- get the entries as a list of lists, one for
> each family, and give families arbitrary names like
> "digits". It's in need of documentation, but if anyone
> is interested I might get around to writing that
> documentation. It was part of a project to write a
> Unicode-aware drop-in replacement for makeindex with
> support for arbitrary sort orders. Maybe one day...
>
> [^1]: It's a good idea to use NFD during sorting
> because then letters with unforeseen decomposable
> diacritics get sorted under their base letter rather
> than just ignored!
>
>
See, that's how rusty my programming skills are: I understand everything
you write, but have no idea how I'd go around implementing it myself! I
haven't done any serious programming for more than 10 years, and I wasn't
that great to begin with...
>
>> I've actually discovered a PDF entitled "From Toolbox
>> to LaTeX", with a link to a Perl script and a LaTeX
>> style that claim to do exactly what I want. It's at:
>> http://www.zas.gwz-berlin.de/uploads/media/tb-to-
>> tex.pdf I've downloaded the scripts, and it seems
>>
>> that they could be useful as starting point, but
>> there's a lot of work needed before either can be
>> used with my dictionary. You're welcome to scratch
>> your itch on those if you want (my Perl skills are
>> basically non-existent. I'm more of a Ruby guy
>> myself).
>>
>
> Sorry to say but there was a bug which would cause it
> not to compile right on line 11! Also It's quite
> ancient from days before perl was unicode-aware or
> before XeTeX was around! Anyway my itch got kinda
> piqued, so maybe I'll look into it once my current
> commission is done in a couple of weeks. I'm unlikely
> to get a new commission right away anyway.
>
>
See, I would never have found that bug. Perl is not really my forte.
> Anyway you might probably write something in Ruby to
> get your database into a datastructure. The parsing
> code in Text::Shoebox isn't exactly complicated, though
> it too shows its age.
>
>
The parsing isn't what I fear most. It's the next step, converting the data
into a useful XeLaTeX file. I'm currently looking at bilingual dictionaries
typeset in LaTeX to see how I could create a template. My LaTeX programming
skills are *very* rusty, so I'd rather not have to create my own styles :P .
>
> I'm not surprised! I ditched MSW in both senses years
> ago and haven't looked back. That's part of why I'm
> reluctant to use Toolbox even under wine.
>
>
I have little choice with my work laptop. At home I use GNU/Linux
exclusively. That computer has never had any other OS installed on it! :)
And I don't mind using Toolbox under Wine, it works pretty well.
>
> I hardly ever use a WYSIWYG WP program willingly any
> more; it's vim, pandoc and XeLaTeX all over the place.
> (*un*willing = paid work is another matter. Luckily
> OpenOffice/LibreOffice can open most anything they
> throw at me -- usually .doc(x)!)
>
>
At work I *have* to use all kinds of GUIs. Our entire business nearly runs
on Excel! :( Not to mention all the modelling tools I have to use.
> I'd rather have
>
>> people plainly not knowing how to pronounce words
>> rather than people *thinking* they know how to
>> pronounce words and doing it wrong.
>>
>
> Very good point indeed!
>
> But then I suppose you should replace j with y!
>
>
Not here in the Netherlands :P .
> And I suppose you know that based on your own
> description of Moten morphophonology and spelling
> lj nj ts dz would be perfectly unambiguous!
>
>
Very true. But I decided against those digraphs extremely early in the
design of Moten's orthography. I wanted a true phonemic script, i.e. no
digraphs, even if those would be unambiguous. I don't treat |l, |n, |s and
|z as digraphs either, by the way. They are single letters and part of the
alphabet.
>
>
>> In the end, I decided to stick with the pipe. It may
>> be a weird choice, but it works for me, and it now
>> *feels* like part of Moten's identity. It gives it a
>> unique look on the page at least :) .
>>
>
> I can't blame you. Back in typewriter days I used
> overstruck slash with impunity! :-)
>
>
Yeah, Moten is definitely pre-Internet :P .
Well Christophe could always (ab)use 01C0 LATIN LETTER
> DENTAL CLICK! ;-)
>
>
Ouch! :P
--
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________
5b. Re: Online Moten Dictionary
Posted by: "George Corley" [email protected]
Date: Fri Mar 8, 2013 12:54 am ((PST))
On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 2:11 AM, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <
[email protected]> wrote:
> On 7 March 2013 14:02, A. da Mek <[email protected]> wrote:
> > There is one disadvantage of non-letter characters - Google does not
> > recognize such string as one word.
> >
>
> It's Google's loss, not mine :P .
>
Google likely won't care, but people searching for words might run into
issues.
Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
6a. Re: OT: Math with roman numerals (Was: Do people ever make variant n
Posted by: "Elena ``of Valhalla''" [email protected]
Date: Fri Mar 8, 2013 1:14 am ((PST))
On 2013-03-07 at 15:12:15 -0500, Matthew George wrote:
> Why bother creating a system to make less work for slaves? They're *slaves*
> .
>
> Or so I presume the Romans would have thought.
because slaves are *expensive*, expecially the well-educated ones
that are able to do arithmetics.
Also, they were the kind of slave who tended to have some
freedom of action, and they could have created the system
for themselves.
Roman slaves were somewhat more similar to today's wage workers
(ranging from abused menial laborers to respected professionals
with good chances to retire / buy their freedom and get rich)
than modern-era slaves (who I believe were mainly in the
menial-work area of jobs).
--
Elena ``of Valhalla''
Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________
6b. Re: OT: Math with roman numerals (Was: Do people ever make variant n
Posted by: "George Corley" [email protected]
Date: Fri Mar 8, 2013 1:38 am ((PST))
On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 3:14 AM, Elena ``of Valhalla'' <
[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2013-03-07 at 15:12:15 -0500, Matthew George wrote:
> > Why bother creating a system to make less work for slaves? They're
> *slaves*
> > .
> >
> > Or so I presume the Romans would have thought.
>
> because slaves are *expensive*, expecially the well-educated ones
> that are able to do arithmetics.
>
You also probably don't want to skimp on comforts for educated slaves,
since they'll probably be tutoring your children.
> Also, they were the kind of slave who tended to have some
> freedom of action, and they could have created the system
> for themselves.
>
Makes sense
> Roman slaves were somewhat more similar to today's wage workers
> (ranging from abused menial laborers to respected professionals
> with good chances to retire / buy their freedom and get rich)
> than modern-era slaves (who I believe were mainly in the
> menial-work area of jobs).
>
I think most people think of the slavery that occurred in the Americas up
until the Civil War, which was definitely focused on menial labor, as well
as some use as household servants. What I hear about most as regards
slavery right now is in the sex trade, but I don't know how big a part of
the whole black market of human trafficking that is.
Messages in this topic (17)
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