The justification I heard ~25 years ago, when resistance to the claps seemed even greater, was that the acoustic latency in a long hall could put the band off kilter and it was a matter of respect to them. To illustrate: in a hundred foot hall, from the time the band plays a note, to the time the folks at the bottom clap in synchrony to when they’re hearing it, to the time the band hears those claps in turn, is roughly 2/10 of a second. My counter-arguments to that are, if everyone is clapping along the length of the hall it’s going to be spread out anyway and not a singular percussive counterpoint; if you’re going to argue that, you’d better admonish everyone to make totally silent balances too; musicians from Bach at his organ console to the USC marching band have been dealing just fine with acoustic latency issues; and we ain’t the high and mighty in our white tie suits at the Vienna opera house.
I recently came back from a long hiatus and was surprised to hear claps in novel places, such as punctuating the end of a hey. I’m delighted with that one: it means the dancers are actually being mindful of the musical phrasing, and giving the hey its full due. It’s a moment where everyone is perceivably dancing skillfully together. I’m with some others in being a little annoyed by claps after Rory’s for all the reasons given, but I’m not gonna scold or clutch my pearls over it. I just won’t participate or encourage. At most I might share why I don’t do it myself. Where claps are consistent with musical phrasing and don’t interfere with hand transitions, I’m always going to be in favor. -Joseph *Sent from my phone which has some odd ideas about formatting sometimes.* On Wed, May 22, 2024 at 9:46 AM Julian Blechner via Contra Callers < [email protected]> wrote: > John Sweeney hit on a big reason I'm baffled, in pointing out that the > balances in Petronella (the dance) are in the second half of a phrase. So > what's funny is that in the originally Petronella, it's > Spin spin spin pause > Stomp Stomp Stomp Stomp (or steps, but, still) > > And in the modern move it's > Stomp Stomp Stomp stomp > Spin spin spin pause > > So the originally Petronella had everyone making percussive noise on that > last measure. And the modern move has people filling in that pause with > percussive sounds. > > I've heard from people say "you need the beat or two to take hands" but > like, somehow that's not true with every other move where a move ends and > you need to join hands in a ring immediately - after a swing, bending a > line of four, turning to a new neighbor on a progression and readying for a > balance, etc. > > My summation is it's just a preference. > And I notice when bands play chiller tunes for Petronella spins, fewer > people clap, so... > > ... > > Anyway, I also very much would love to hear any other explanations of > "clapping in Petronellas is wrong". > > > In dance, > Julian Blechner. > > > > On Wed, May 22, 2024, 12:16 PM Richard Fischer via Contra Callers < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Maia, >> >> I have no claim to expertise, but I'm with you. In dances where the >> Petronella claps don't interfere with anything, why not? Dancers enjoy it, >> and it can often be one of the first things new dancers notice about >> unified timing. I'm not sure how it originated, but since the move >> previously was often spin first then a satisfying balance, maybe the claps >> were a way to still have that nice rhythmic end to the phrase. In any >> event, why should a caller tell a hall full of dancers they're wrong? >> >> With best wishes, >> >> Richard Fischer >> Arlington, MA >> >> On May 22, 2024, at 11:49 AM, Maia McCormick via Contra Callers < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> tldr: those of you who are anti-Petronella claps (in general, not just in >> specific cases where they interrupt flow from the spin into the next move), >> I want to understand why! >> >> Clapping on Petronella turns has been the overwhelming norm ever since I >> started dancing, but I know that it wasn't always this way, and that some >> folks vehemently dislike it. Well recently I've noted the (baffling?? >> inexplicable??) rise of clapping after the spin on Rory O'Moore's, which >> makes my blood boil (it's so satisfying to catch hands in the new wave out >> of the spin, why would you ever NOT do that??), and it's making me think >> more about Petronella claps. >> >> Clapping on a Rory bugs me so much because it interrupts the momentum of >> spin-and-catch-hands. I'll admit that I don't understand the objection to >> Petronella claps, at least through that lens. Like certainly, in a >> specifically Cure for the Claps-type* dance (with e.g. Petronella spin into >> allemande left, Petronella spin into swing, etc.), clapping interrupts the >> momentum, and it's way more satisfying to spin directly into the next move. >> But given a bog standard "Petronella, Petronella, balance and swing" or >> similar, I don't feel like the claps interrupt the momentum or disrupt >> transitions, and in fact are a nice fun way to fill space. >> >> To be clear, the above isn't an argument in favor of Petronella claps, >> just me explaining where I'm coming from. So now we come to my question: >> >> 1. *those of you who are anti-Petronella claps, can you explain why?* I >> want to understand! Is it a satisfying momentum thing that I've just never >> experienced because I'm so used to clapping? Dedication to historical >> accuracy? Something else entirely? >> >> 2. *what dance(s) would you use to make your case to a contemporary >> contra hall, that aren't explicitly written as Cure for the Claps dances?* >> Petronella >> spin to a swing feels great, and of *course* you shouldn't clap there >> (although some folks inexplicably do, sigh)—but if you'd prefer that we >> didn't clap even in a dance like Tica Tica Timing, then a CftC dance isn't >> the whole story. If you had the infinite good will of a contemporary contra >> hall, and were able to say to the dancers "don't clap on the Petronellas in >> this one and just pay attention to how nice it feels to X and how >> satisfying it is to Y", what dance would you use, what things would you >> tell the dancers to clue into, etc. to make your case? (And what would you >> ask the band for?) >> >> Thanks as always for your expertise! >> >> Cheers, >> Maia >> >> * Cure for the Claps contra: a dance that discourages clapping during the >> Petronella turn, often by putting moves directly after the Petronella that >> flow nicely from a spin. May be intentional or incidental. See e.g.: The >> Cure for the Claps >> <https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/dance.php?id=10364> >> (Bob Isaacs), Becket in the Kitchen >> <https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/dance.php?id=17> >> (Becky Hill) >> >> >> -- >> Maia McCormick (she/her) >> 917.279.8194 >> _______________________________________________ >> Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> [email protected] >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> [email protected] >> > _______________________________________________ > Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >
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