As a musician I'm generally pretty positive on clapping, noisy balances, whoops, and other noises from the hall -- it communicates that the dancers are having fun and feeling the music!
Jeff On Wed, May 22, 2024 at 2:35 PM Mac Mckeever via Contra Callers < [email protected]> wrote: > I have heard that, especially in larger halls - the time it takes for the > music to get to the dancers and then the clapping back to the band makes > the clapping out of time with what the band is trying to do and can be > annoying. > > I am not sure I ever heard a musician say that > > Mac > > > > > > On Wednesday, May 22, 2024 at 12:58:48 PM CDT, Russell Frank via Contra > Callers <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I’m no expert, but I was dancing back in the era when clapping was frowned > upon, and still often refrain from clapping. I can think of 2 reasons. > > First, this was simply a case of the dancers doing a move differently than > the caller had taught it - and not just a few dancers occasionally, but a > lot of dancers every time. It must have been a bit of a shock. > Second, percussion from the hall is generally frowned upon, because it > covers, and could confuse the band. This may have been a problem back in > the day, although bands expect it and have no problem these days. > Russell, Monterey, CA > > > On May 22, 2024, at 9:45 AM, Julian Blechner via Contra Callers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > John Sweeney hit on a big reason I'm baffled, in pointing out that the > balances in Petronella (the dance) are in the second half of a phrase. So > what's funny is that in the originally Petronella, it's > > Spin spin spin pause > > Stomp Stomp Stomp Stomp (or steps, but, still) > > > > And in the modern move it's > > Stomp Stomp Stomp stomp > > Spin spin spin pause > > > > So the originally Petronella had everyone making percussive noise on > that last measure. And the modern move has people filling in that pause > with percussive sounds. > > > > I've heard from people say "you need the beat or two to take hands" but > like, somehow that's not true with every other move where a move ends and > you need to join hands in a ring immediately - after a swing, bending a > line of four, turning to a new neighbor on a progression and readying for a > balance, etc. > > > > My summation is it's just a preference. > > And I notice when bands play chiller tunes for Petronella spins, fewer > people clap, so... > > > > ... > > > > Anyway, I also very much would love to hear any other explanations of > "clapping in Petronellas is wrong". > > > > > > In dance, > > Julian Blechner. > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 22, 2024, 12:16 PM Richard Fischer via Contra Callers < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Maia, > >> > >> I have no claim to expertise, but I'm with you. In dances where the > Petronella claps don't interfere with anything, why not? Dancers enjoy it, > and it can often be one of the first things new dancers notice about > unified timing. I'm not sure how it originated, but since the move > previously was often spin first then a satisfying balance, maybe the claps > were a way to still have that nice rhythmic end to the phrase. In any > event, why should a caller tell a hall full of dancers they're wrong? > >> > >> With best wishes, > >> > >> Richard Fischer > >> Arlington, MA > >> > >>> On May 22, 2024, at 11:49 AM, Maia McCormick via Contra Callers < > [email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>> tldr: those of you who are anti-Petronella claps (in general, not just > in specific cases where they interrupt flow from the spin into the next > move), I want to understand why! > >>> > >>> Clapping on Petronella turns has been the overwhelming norm ever since > I started dancing, but I know that it wasn't always this way, and that some > folks vehemently dislike it. Well recently I've noted the (baffling?? > inexplicable??) rise of clapping after the spin on Rory O'Moore's, which > makes my blood boil (it's so satisfying to catch hands in the new wave out > of the spin, why would you ever NOT do that??), and it's making me think > more about Petronella claps. > >>> > >>> Clapping on a Rory bugs me so much because it interrupts the momentum > of spin-and-catch-hands. I'll admit that I don't understand the objection > to Petronella claps, at least through that lens. Like certainly, in a > specifically Cure for the Claps-type* dance (with e.g. Petronella spin into > allemande left, Petronella spin into swing, etc.), clapping interrupts the > momentum, and it's way more satisfying to spin directly into the next move. > But given a bog standard "Petronella, Petronella, balance and swing" or > similar, I don't feel like the claps interrupt the momentum or disrupt > transitions, and in fact are a nice fun way to fill space. > >>> > >>> To be clear, the above isn't an argument in favor of Petronella claps, > just me explaining where I'm coming from. So now we come to my question: > >>> > >>> 1. those of you who are anti-Petronella claps, can you explain why? I > want to understand! Is it a satisfying momentum thing that I've just never > experienced because I'm so used to clapping? Dedication to historical > accuracy? Something else entirely? > >>> > >>> 2. what dance(s) would you use to make your case to a contemporary > contra hall, that aren't explicitly written as Cure for the Claps > dances? Petronella spin to a swing feels great, and of course you shouldn't > clap there (although some folks inexplicably do, sigh)—but if you'd prefer > that we didn't clap even in a dance like Tica Tica Timing, then a CftC > dance isn't the whole story. If you had the infinite good will of a > contemporary contra hall, and were able to say to the dancers "don't clap > on the Petronellas in this one and just pay attention to how nice it feels > to X and how satisfying it is to Y", what dance would you use, what things > would you tell the dancers to clue into, etc. to make your case? (And what > would you ask the band for?) > >>> > >>> Thanks as always for your expertise! > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> Maia > >>> > >>> * Cure for the Claps contra: a dance that discourages clapping during > the Petronella turn, often by putting moves directly after the Petronella > that flow nicely from a spin. May be intentional or incidental. See e.g.: > The Cure for the Claps (Bob Isaacs), Becket in the Kitchen (Becky Hill) > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Maia McCormick (she/her) > >>> 917.279.8194 > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected] > >>> To unsubscribe send an email to > [email protected] > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected] > >> To unsubscribe send an email to > [email protected] > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected] > > To unsubscribe send an email to > [email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > _______________________________________________ > Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >
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