On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 07:13:35PM +0100, Stefan van der Eijk wrote:
> I rsync (over ssh) directly from kenobi. The mirrors are too slow and 
> too f*cked up for the things I'm doing. I'm happy that I'm allowed to 
> use rsync on kenobi, if that is taken away that will mean the end of me 
> uploading the alpha port.

Well my personal mirror which I get off carroll is fine for i586.  It's
just ppc that's messed up and well it seems to always be that way.  I
don't mess with the other archs so I'm not sure about them.

> Yup... a lot of frustration in the air. Many people have the same 
> feeling. I'm just wondering WHY?
> 
> What's wrong with mdk?
> 
>    * Is it a controll / trust issue (scared that contributors are going
>      to f*ck up their product)?
>    * Is it a resources problem?

Neither.  It's a communication issue.  

a) On several occasions I have felt as though I have been responded to
in a rude or disrespectful way after contributing something.  This does
not instill a desire to contribute, especially in a situation where
feeling good about what you did is the primary benefit of contributing.

b) Having my contributions flat out ignored.  On many occasions for
packages in main (and when I didn't have write access to contrib) my
submissions of fixes to packages would go unanswered for long periods of
time.  Stew finally put through wireless-tools because he got tired (I
guess) of hearing me complain about it.

c) As you point out below the documentation on what the policies are is
severely lacking.  I don't really know what I'm allowed to do with my
write access to contribs.  Several people (e.g. Oden) have run into
situations where people feel like their toes are getting stepped on.
Not to mention some policies aren't clear at all so there are a dozen
different implementations.  And some of the documentation that exists is
flat out *WRONG*.

d) There isn't a single way to contribute.  There really should be one
concise way of contributing packages.  I.E. club and contrib probably
ought to be merged.

e) Many decisions are made without consulting or even explaining the
rationale behind them to the community.  When asked about them many
times you get silence or a flat out nasty response.  Perfect example is
the licensing policies on MNF.

f) Many contributions are made overly onerous to contribute.  If you
aren't a packager it is difficult to get anything in.  Mandrake makes no
effort, IMHO, to foster contributions to manuals or other non-technical
things.  Someone did labels for CDs... and has seen Mandrake simply
ignore these labels.  (Though that discussion is active again on the
club-volunteers list).

> I totally agree. At the moment I'm willing to work on (the process of?) 
> improving the process, not at improving the product. Once the process is 
> right, then they'll have me onboard again to work on the product.
> 
> I'd also like to see more things documented:
> 
>    * Like what contributors are allowed to do and what not.
>    * How things are to be done.
>    * update the rpm howto document
> 
> And have the management make decisions and PUBLISH them and stick to 
> them. If the alpha port isn't going to be supported --> kill it.

*nod*

> Get a real business model. More focus on the enterprise, less on 
> end-(l)users. In the end, the enterpise market is where the real $$$ are.

I'm not sure that you have to do enterprise stuff to make money.  But I
do think Mandrake needs to target its products to its userbase better.
Right now its userbase is primarily desktop users.  There is a lot of
confusion about what Mandrake should be used for.  That could be solved
by making a "server" Mandrake branch like they have for firewalls.  I
guess Corporate Server fulfills this to some degree.  But it's kinda
pricey for a lot of people.

> I've suggested it before, maybe we (the mdk community) should write a 
> document which reflects how we want things to work and make demands. 
> Otherwise boycott contributing to mdk.

I've worked on something to this effect.  But I'm so frustrated that I
feel I'm alone in trying to get any changes effected.  If you want I'll
show you what I have, though I'll have to ask that it stay confidential
for the moment as I want to finish it before releasing it to the world.

If you want to discuss catch me on the freenode IRC network.  My nick is
ResDev.

-- 
Ben Reser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://ben.reser.org

"America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is
the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the
champion only of her own." -- John Quincy Adams, July 4th, 1821

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