> bccz> Development is totally open. If you want to help, you can. There > is no bccz> need to ask for developers, because the policy is clear. > Volunteers are bccz> welcome and always have been. > ??? > Don't have to ask developers ? If I want something to be changed in ML i > will post a message to cooker list.
Sometimes it is more effective to post a patch, and/or file a bug. Sometimes not. > If other people want the same thing > then it is up to the developers to make the change. After all they are > the ones who have the control over the final product. But you seem to infer that only Mandrakesoft people are developers, and exclude yourself from possibly being a developer. > > bccz> Your point? > My point ? If you want to do it wright you do it yourself. I do. Do you? > bccz> Or that bugs took longer to solve than the time available before > they had bccz> to meet their commitments. > bccz> bccz> Of course, Mandrake didn't go out telling people not to test > this release ... maybe the best solution would be a kind of a fork to > create a > "perfect" ml 9.2 (9.2.1) apply all of the updates over the next month or > so and post a howto for people who wont to build their own distrib. > isos. The question is, would the bugs be found in 9.2, or would people think "9.2 is just an RC, I will wait for 9.2.1", and then you end up in the same situation? > There have been a question on cooker list concerning this but I haven't > seen a god answer for it. I'm currently truing to do the same thing > myself. > > bccz> Have you considered that maybe Mandrakesoft doesn't want postfix > to depend bccz> on mysql by default, but *does* want to make it easy for > someone to build bccz> the package with mysql support???? > > No. It was a mistake. The mistake got corrected a few releases later. > Anyway postfix doesn't depend on mysql it only has a module in it > built to support mysql. Which depends on MySQL, and can't be packaged seperately (AFAIK). From: http://cvs.mandrakesoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/SPECS/postfix/postfix.spec?rev=1.63&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup %define with_MYSQL 0 [...] %if %{with_MYSQL} Requires: MySQL, MySQL-client BuildRequires: MySQL, MySQL-client, MySQL-devel %endif > bccz> All you need to do is: > bccz> $ rpm --rebuild --with mysql postfix*.src.rpm > Yeah i know how to build rpm. > > bccz> No, it's in contrib, along with courier and binc and dovecot. > There was bccz> resistance to having two IMAP servers in a desktop > distro. IMHO, we should bccz> replace UW, and have Cyrus in main > (reclaiming the space sendmail wastes bccz> ;-)). > > Yeah I know it's in the contrib but we voted for it to be in the main. And maybe if can be done for 10.0, and we can put UW in contrib? But you have people upgrade from 9.1 to 9.2 and lose support for the IMAP server they were using. We are making progress, but it is slow, but it doesn't help if you complain ... > > bccz> So, then why is cyrus-imapd in contrib now? Why are there people > who are bccz> working on making it easier to set it up? > Yes I know that it is in the contrib thanks to the votes. > Look the main problem here is that some of us need some new features > which are not so common. If added they would not make any difference to > the most people. Most wouldn't even notice them but it would make a > great difference to some of us since it would be supported by > mandrake. > Example cyrus-sasl doesn't have a support for mysql or postgre. > If added this wouldn't make any difference to most of the people. > Most of the people don't even use it. > But it would make a great difference to me since the next time a > security patch is released I wouldn't have to go try the same process of > patching building and testing. I don't have enough resources to keep all > of the old mandrake releases installed so I could build a few rpm when a > bug is found. So, send your patches. If Florin won't take them directly (he often doesn't manage to look at cyrus stuff), one of the Luca's will take a look at it, or I will. I needed LDAP support in samba-2.2.x, and since it couldn't be available at run-time, I made it available at compile time. In samba3, xml and mysql are optional at runtime, so I have provided the additional packages (and hope to do the same for LDAP so the normal samba packages don't necessarily need to depend on ldap). Things *do* happen when the people who need them contribute ... > Maybe a moderated feature request list should be built for mandrake > developers as a reference point. http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/wiki I meant to summarise some of the authentication-related aspects already, but haven't had time. > New features are always welcome as long they don't affect stability. > > bccz> Please, post your bug numbers, otherwise there is no reason to > give any bccz> credence to reports like this. > Already wasted to much time writing this. Don't have the time to go try > cooker archive. OK, waste our time then ... > bccz> Possibly in a bug report on the RC or similar. How else do you > make an bccz> errata? Report issues that no-one has tested?? > You didn't understand what i was trying to say. Some issues were > reported and didn't get fixed. Usually this happens because of lack of time. Complaining doesn't help. Bug triaging, experimenting, patching etc do. (Of course, there are some bugs where fixes were provided but not fixed in the package, including the Lisa errata entry ...). > bccz> So, you have a better idea? Maybe you know how to patch CDs? bccz> > Of course, you can always do the update after installation. > You missed the point. When an obvious thing doesn't work it leaves a bad > impression. > > bccz> It looks like you are new to cooker, so remember: > Actually I'm not. Well, your post indicates you have missed a lot of similar threads ... > bccz> 1)This is not a support list > This should be a developers list where all users can share > ideas how to make a better Mandrake . It normally is. > bccz> 2)Don't troll, contribute instead (that's the only way things get > better). > > I'm trying and a have tried to contribute. Haven't seen anything from you in the 18 months I have been active, so forgive my skepticism (if I missed something). > I didn't write this just to > get some steam out. If I wanted that I would just say @[EMAIL PROTECTED]@[EMAIL > PROTECTED]@#!@ > well something inappropriate :)))) > I have been a long time user of mandrake and its irritating when the > same mistakes are happening all over again. Sure, so, help us fix them (like a lot of other people on this list do, BTW). > bccz> It also seems you are assuming the worst about everyone, instead > of bccz> realising that there are constraints on many aspects (available > time, bccz> number s of bad bug reports etc etc). > Maybe. But according to my experience until you start complaining > about something it will never get fixed. There are more diplomatic ways, and more efficient ways. > the problem here is that until a lot of people starts complaining > nothing will get changed. So, nothing has changed at all??? Sorry, I don't buy that. > A lot of people think like this 9.0 = test, 9.1 = a little better, 9.2 = > absolutely perfect. > this just to be in the old days. Now it seems that to many people are > crying for bleeding edge and distributions are truing to catch up. OK, in that case maybe we should have gone with samba-3.0.0 in main instead? Regards, Buchan
