On Friday 10 January 2003 17:02, Pierre Fortin wrote: > On Fri, 10 Jan 2003 08:57:24 -0500 Sascha Noyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > According to distrowatch Mandrake 9.1 beta1 is out on some mirrors. > > This is NOT a support request for 9.0 -- > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ <----snip----->
> I wish I had the time to test cooker; but here's a short list of 9.0 > problems that has had me considering reverting back to 8.2 today (several > of my systems are still happily on 8.2)... they are intended to be things > that Mdk should make sure don't happen again in 9.1: > > New ThinkPad on which I installed 8.2 and several days later, used the new > upgrade option (the one able to handle back to 8.1) to get to 9.0 > > 0**. ISOs created for post-standard 700MB CDs (this is like trying to > write 2MB on *any* 1.44 floppy drive ever manufactured) excommunicated all > users who didn't own standards-extending writers. > 700MB CDs are in my area the only one you will get. It is quite complicated to become 650 MB cd-r's. Where is it written, that it is bad ? How many people have really problems with that beside you ? Isn't it enough that the club has provided 650 MB ISOs ? > 1**. ohphone was not compiled properly -- this is *important* in that it > is used to support *my* users who are scattered hundreds of miles away -- > I've not had time to find the sources and rebuild -- besides, what about > my other users...? Create another "SuperFOO" issues? No thanks! But, > some s/w (ssh, ohphone,...) should not require being voted upon to get > updates issued, since without them, user support becomes problematic or > extra-cost. > So you are a user of ohphone. I've never used it and the above said isn't really something that would bother me. For sure some software are standard (ssh) and they should be in without someone to vote for them. > 2. after a few weeks on 9.0, the system became so unstable and flaky (many > reboots required) that hardware problems were seriously considered as the > cause. "fix" was to delete ~/.kde and reboot. > Never saw problems here. Indeed I had such problems on 8.2. Kde and mandrake is rockstable on my machine. > 3a. remote support was initially complicated by unannounced shorewall > default installation that did not consider ssh important, drove me nuts > until I found it. That outgoing ssh is blocked by the packetfilter isn't bad. Indeed it is good , beside of machines that will be remotly administered. But If you install the machine it should be easy to be sure that sshd is reachable. > > 3b. shorewall complicated switching between LAN and modem access to 'net > > 4. installation of lisa and samba after I carefully requested NO > Windows/Samba related s/w of any sort. Haven't encountered this. On my machine it was not the case. > > 5. Installation of LinModem support was more troublesome than in 8.2 -- > while not delivered in a Mandrake distro, at least ensuring that a new > distro does not make installation of LinModem s/w more difficult is > important to winning new users. > There was some other cases of previously supported hardware, that wasn't recognized anymore. Its a pitty, yes > 6. CD filesystem got confused (displaying "??????" for each filename and > permission denied) requiring a reboot (there's that fscking word again) > Switching off supermount should help, and again I haven't encountered this problem on my machine ... > 7. Sound stopped working (lsof showed several apps accessing sound) -- > rebooted to fix. > Where are for sure other ways. I can't imagine that your often reboots are really neccessary. And it seems to me, that it is a problem of the snd-card driver. Which card is it ? > 8. CUPS decided to start trying to connect to my gateway (LinkSys router) > in order to print to the LOCAL printer causing >1minute delays in print > starts -- application is hung until the job prints. Condidering reboot > after sending this note. Each print job leaves a defunct xpp process too. > That sounds strange. Maybe a missconfigured CUPS ? > 9. miscellaneous other nits > I really can'tz confirm your problems. Mandrake 9.0 was the fastest , rockstablest version I ever used ( I'm a user of mandrake since 6.1) > ** My financial situation is different than other retirees because I get > NO government checks (a heart attack prevented me from reaching the number > of "points" required to qualify) and I live *only* on the equity I built > up. Between the additional cost of a new CD-RW and the long distance > bills which weren't there with a working ohphone, the money budgeted for > the Club was eroded. This should not be a surprise; I stated this at the > time of the 700MB CD issues and again to the Club people at Mdk who chose > to ignore the very comments that were *requested as feedback* in the Club > renewal memo I got. > No comment. (what has your particular situation to do with mandrake ?) > Note that Linux is touted as a no-reboot-required OS... I have had to > reboot 9.0 so many times that it feels like I must have accidentally > installed W9x... :^P > Can't confirm that. I have usually an uptime of 7-14 days and the reboots then are not caused by the OS , more by power-faults, or rebooting for changing hardware. > > The problem Mdk may be facing is that the cooker list is more geeky than > it used to be and those "little issues" that are important to win new > users and retain those users who are just trying to get things done (not > become cooker testers) are being tossed aside or made short shrift of. > The QA of released version should be made better. Is there a bugzilla for doing so in meantime ? It isn't a solution to say a released version is bug free. And it is a pain to reporting bugs in this way. Ignoring bugs in a release version causes: - a to small errata list - bugs over several releases > For example, I have suggested that a new release should have a period of > time after release where issues should be treated just like any other > cooker problem -- this was ignored and any <new release> issue is bounced > from the cooker list as a "support" issue. That's a sure way to give > users the impression that Mdk has moved to a "dump a snapshot out the door > and issue plea for contributions" model... not an image that evokes > confidence. > This I can't second. There should be for sure a possibility to solve bugs in a release (better reporting, faster updates). But if cooker is the right place for it ? I would vote for a release bugzilla ! > I don't want to belabor the point; but Mdk has embarked on a slippery > slope with the release of 9.0 IMO. 9.1 will either restore or kill my > enthusiasm for future Mdk releases... > > A suggestion (probably made previously by others): release interim cooker > ISOs to get more coverage by thos of us who... -- ahh.. never mind, that > would require an infrastructure and culture that wouldn't orphan > 9.1cookerA like it does <current release>... and no, <x.y>beta[1-3] is not > what I mean (that discussion will take us in orthogonal directions). > > I'm sure this will draw flames; but it is intended to shine a light on > some issues which are dangerous, IMO, to the longterm health of Mandrake > and Linux... > I think they are working on it. And there is a lot moving on it. So I can't understand your angry and flaming kind of speaking. And to say you will not respond to flaming while you for yourself are doing so I really dislike. > That's my position today -- flames will be ignored. Hoping for a MUCH > more useful, reliable and stable 9.1 > Should be a short way in my experience on mandrake 9.0. And yes I hope the 9.1 release will be so rockstable as the current release is. > Pierre (not sure if I'm happy or sad to see 9.1beta1 available at this > time...) Hopefully there will be a loooong betaphase to kill all bugs in the betas. Greets Steffen -- ____________________ counter.li.org : #296567. machine: 181800 vdr-box : 87 ____________________ Please dont CC me, since if I have replied I'll watch the tread. Both mails will be filtered to the ML-folder. Thanks
