----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]----
Your have a circle at any point it reads 175# (equalized). Arms of the
bellcrank, the cables and the attach points. Your trying to read one cable
reads X so if you have two then it must be 175 X (multiply) two =. But try
this you and I are holding a five hundred pound steel plate. We are
standing
on scales. What will the scales read. Your scale will read your weight +
250# half the weight. Not your weight plus 500#
>>>>>>> The tension is pulling both end together the front bellcrank
and the rear equally. <<<<<<<
>>>>>> The total thing is equal thur out. Because there is nothing
to
use for a multiplier, only one closed loop.<<<<<<
Ed was going the way of two 175 weights. And that would place 350 on
the
pulley. But because the system is alive and free to move it has no dead
weight. For every action there is and equal reaction.
If you cut one cable or any part you have nothing. But, why did the
other
one lose it's tension? After all you only cut 175# off. Why because it was
alive and you just killed ALL the tension. (See first eleven words above.)
it all works together as one The one part seem to be what
you
are missing. One system not 2 cables. Without any part it is 0, nothing,
nada.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jones Family [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 10:23 PM
To: MarWarHamp
Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Tension on cables still
Warren,
I'm not sure what you mean by a multiplier. We have 175lb of tension on
both cables as measured by a tensiometer, and the bellcranks (at each end)
will be experiencing 350lb of force. 175 X 2 = 350 there is no
multiplication of force. Everything is in balance. It would be the same
as
holding 50lb with both arms straight out in front of you, each arm would
be
supporting 25lb or 1/2 of the total weight. A close loop system is the
same
as 2 arms holding a weight, the force is shared equally. The total
weight/force is 350 shared equally by both cables at 175lb each. I don't
see the "multiplication".
You also talked about pulling or pushing a cable. If what you are talking
about is the force to move the system to get the elevator to operate then
we
are talking about something entirely different.
Mavin Jones (Not Marvin)
----- Original Message -----
From: MarWarHamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Jones Family <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 11:41 PM
Subject: RE: [COUPERS-TECH] Tension on cables still
> Marvin, As you explained it both A and B are correct I think.
But
> lets try why I say "No you are wrong."
>
> C.) What is tension? For this I go to the Dictionary. "a
> balancing of forces in opposition" or if you pull or push one the other
> reacts to it. Move the controls you pull one cable the other react by
> following the first. All along I have said you have no multiplier. You
are
> NOT adding any thing. It is a closed system. You set 175# on one cable.
If
> you look at it, it is one cable.
> That is what I was saying in my X, O, and W. from attach point to
> pulley the force was trying to pull both together. X and O it washed out
any
> weight pull down to X because it is also trying to pull X up. That is
just
> what happens in our control system. Warren
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jones Family [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 10:55 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Tension on cables still
>
> Just when you thought this tension thing was over. Well, I don't get a
> chance to check email everyday so I'm a few days behind. However, I
did
> come up with a good example (at least I think it is). Lets try this...
>
> Let's start with a single pulley suspended from the ceiling. Then run a
> single cable around the pulley with equal lengths of cable hanging down
on
> both sides. If you were to hang 175Lb on each end of the cable and
measure
> the tension of the cable you would have 175Lb on each cable. However,
if
> you measure the force that the pulley is supporting it would be 350Lb.
> Everybody okay so far?
>
> Now if you take that same system and install a pulley at the bottom end
> where the weights were and close the loop of cable, and place a 350Lb
weight
> on the lower pulley the cables would still only have 175Lb of tension
but
> the pulleys at both ends would be supporting 350Lb. Clear as mud?
>
> The problem with the example given below is it only explains a open loop
> single pulley system, which isn't what we are talking about. To make
the
> example below into a closed loop system we would have to mount a pulley
to
> the weight, run the cable through it and attach the end of the cable to
the
> same point as the pulley above the weight. Then when you pull the cable
it
> will take 1/2 the force of the weight being lifted. Then it would be a
> close loop system like we have been talking about.
>
> Well, that is my 2 cents. If that isn't clear enough then maybe Mr.
Spani
> could enlighten us some more.
>
> Mavin Jones
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Warren Hampton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 8:23 PM
> Subject: RE: [COUPERS-TECH] Tension on cables still
>
>
> > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following
any
> advice in this forum.]----
> >
> > John, In replying to Ed today I came up with a little drawing
> > assignment. If your willing to do it continue on. Warren
> >
> > Draw an X = point of attachment. Above it draw an O = pulley and
it's
> > attachment. To the right or left midway or lower between the first
two,
> > write a W = weight. Now draw a line from X up over the pulley and down
> > to the W.
> >
> > Now that you are looking at the system think about the Weight. We
all
> > agree that the weight is pulling down on the pulley on the weight
side.
> >
> > What is pulling down on O to X? The weight is pulling O and X
> > together. It is tension trying to pull X up to O and O down to X with
> > the >same< force. The squeezing effect simply is not died weight
pulling
> > down >but together. Not the multiplier you are looking at but a
neutral.
> > I hope this helps to end the 350 lbs question.
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > In a message dated 3/22/01 9:19:17 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > >
> > > > OK now please tell me where your multiplier is on the system your
> > > > describing.
> > >
> > > OK, try this. Connect one end of a cable to the floor. Put a
spring
> > > balance
> > > between the end of the cable and the hook on the floor. Hang a
pulley
> > > from
> > > the ceiling, also by a spring balance. Loop the cable over the
pulley
> > > and
> > > hang a 175# weight on it. What will the tensiometer read on the
cable?
> > > What
> > > will the 2 scales read?
> > >
> > > Answer: The tensiometer will read 175#. The scale between the
floor
> > > and the
> > > cable will read 175# and the one on the ceiling will read 350#
> > >
> > > QED.
> > >
> > > John
> >
> >
> >
> > M20a N8144E
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > to unsubscribe send mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less.
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>
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