----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]----
Warren Hampton wrote: > Your have a circle at any point it reads 175# (equalized). Arms of the > bellcrank, the cables and the attach points. Your trying to read one > cable > reads X so if you have two then it must be 175 X (multiply) two =. But > try > this you and I are holding a five hundred pound steel plate. We are > standing > on scales. What will the scales read. Your scale will read your weight + > 250# half the weight. Not your weight plus 500# > > >>>>>>> The tension is pulling both end together the front bellcrank > and the rear equally. <<<<<<< > > >>>>>> The total thing is equal thur out. Because there is nothing to > use for a multiplier, only one closed loop.<<<<<< > > Ed was going the way of two 175 weights. And that would place 350 on the > pulley. But because the system is alive and free to move it has no dead > weight. For every action there is and equal reaction. > If you cut one cable or any part you have nothing. But, why did the > other > one lose it's tension? After all you only cut 175# off. Why because it > was > alive and you just killed ALL the tension. (See first eleven words > above.) > it all works together as one The one part seem to be what > you > are missing. One system not 2 cables. Without any part it is 0, nothing, > nada. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jones Family [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 10:23 PM > To: MarWarHamp > Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Tension on cables still > > Warren, > I'm not sure what you mean by a multiplier. We have 175lb of tension on > both cables as measured by a tensiometer, and the bellcranks (at each > end) > will be experiencing 350lb of force. 175 X 2 = 350 there is no > multiplication of force. Everything is in balance. It would be the > same as > holding 50lb with both arms straight out in front of you, each arm would > be > supporting 25lb or 1/2 of the total weight. A close loop system is the > same > as 2 arms holding a weight, the force is shared equally. The total > weight/force is 350 shared equally by both cables at 175lb each. I > don't > see the "multiplication". > > You also talked about pulling or pushing a cable. If what you are > talking > about is the force to move the system to get the elevator to operate > then we > are talking about something entirely different. > > Mavin Jones (Not Marvin) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MarWarHamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Jones Family <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 11:41 PM > Subject: RE: [COUPERS-TECH] Tension on cables still > > > > Marvin, As you explained it both A and B are correct I think. > But > > lets try why I say "No you are wrong." > > > > C.) What is tension? For this I go to the Dictionary. "a > > balancing of forces in opposition" or if you pull or push one the other > > reacts to it. Move the controls you pull one cable the other react by > > following the first. All along I have said you have no multiplier. You > > are > > NOT adding any thing. It is a closed system. You set 175# on one cable. > > If > > you look at it, it is one cable. > > That is what I was saying in my X, O, and W. from attach point to > > pulley the force was trying to pull both together. X and O it washed out > any > > weight pull down to X because it is also trying to pull X up. That is > > just > > what happens in our control system. Warren > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jones Family [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 10:55 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Tension on cables still > > > > Just when you thought this tension thing was over. Well, I don't get a > > chance to check email everyday so I'm a few days behind. However, I > > did > > come up with a good example (at least I think it is). Lets try this... > > > > Let's start with a single pulley suspended from the ceiling. Then run a > > single cable around the pulley with equal lengths of cable hanging down > > on > > both sides. If you were to hang 175Lb on each end of the cable and > measure > > the tension of the cable you would have 175Lb on each cable. However, > > if > > you measure the force that the pulley is supporting it would be 350Lb. > > Everybody okay so far? > > > > Now if you take that same system and install a pulley at the bottom end > > where the weights were and close the loop of cable, and place a 350Lb > weight > > on the lower pulley the cables would still only have 175Lb of tension > > but > > the pulleys at both ends would be supporting 350Lb. Clear as mud? > > > > The problem with the example given below is it only explains a open loop > > single pulley system, which isn't what we are talking about. To make > > the > > example below into a closed loop system we would have to mount a pulley > > to > > the weight, run the cable through it and attach the end of the cable to > the > > same point as the pulley above the weight. Then when you pull the cable > it > > will take 1/2 the force of the weight being lifted. Then it would be a > > close loop system like we have been talking about. > > > > Well, that is my 2 cents. If that isn't clear enough then maybe Mr. > > Spani > > could enlighten us some more. > > > > Mavin Jones > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Warren Hampton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 8:23 PM > > Subject: RE: [COUPERS-TECH] Tension on cables still > > > > > > > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following > any > > advice in this forum.]---- > > > > > > John, In replying to Ed today I came up with a little drawing > > > assignment. If your willing to do it continue on. Warren > > > > > > Draw an X = point of attachment. Above it draw an O = pulley and it's > > > attachment. To the right or left midway or lower between the first two, > > > write a W = weight. Now draw a line from X up over the pulley and down > > > to the W. > > > > > > Now that you are looking at the system think about the Weight. We all > > > agree that the weight is pulling down on the pulley on the weight side. > > > > > > What is pulling down on O to X? The weight is pulling O and X > > > together. It is tension trying to pull X up to O and O down to X with > > > the >same< force. The squeezing effect simply is not died weight pulling > > > down >but together. Not the multiplier you are looking at but a neutral. > > > I hope this helps to end the 350 lbs question. > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > In a message dated 3/22/01 9:19:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > > > > > > OK now please tell me where your multiplier is on the system your > > > > > describing. > > > > > > > > OK, try this. Connect one end of a cable to the floor. Put a spring > > > > balance > > > > between the end of the cable and the hook on the floor. Hang a pulley > > > > from > > > > the ceiling, also by a spring balance. Loop the cable over the pulley > > > > and > > > > hang a 175# weight on it. What will the tensiometer read on the > cable? > > > > What > > > > will the 2 scales read? > > > > > > > > Answer: The tensiometer will read 175#. The scale between the floor > > > > and the > > > > cable will read 175# and the one on the ceiling will read 350# > > > > > > > > QED. > > > > > > > > John > > > > > >This is a problem in engineering statics. The first rule is that all > > >forces in the vertical direction must equal ZERO. All forces in the > > >horizontal direction must equal ZERO. Otherwise the system is in motion. > > >Just draw out the cable system and make sure that the force in the > > >dowwnward dir. is offset by a force in the upward dir. If you draw the > > >system horizontally the same is true. You can't have more force in one > > >dir. than the other. Craig 2623H > > > > > > M20a N8144E > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > to unsubscribe send mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. > > > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. > > > http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01 > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- to unsubscribe send mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ==^================================================================ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Sid.bAhN69 Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01 ==^================================================================
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