TOTALLY agreed. Even if it's a small step in any direction, it's a step; I'd want to migrate all existing content and users, and then put up a "we didn't close, we moved!" sign on the door to the google group.
-Alex /ah indyhall.org coworking in philadelphia On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 3:39 PM, gerard <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Alex, > > I think it's great this discussion has been brought up. Personally, > whether Google Group or Zoho forum, they both have pros and cons and > I'll manage either way. > > The only thing I wanted to say was that I believe there should only be > a single destination at any given moment. That is, I would not try to > maintain a Google Group and a forum. It's just one more thing to keep > up with. If we were to migrate to something else, we ought to tell > everyone to stop using the Google Group and start using the new thing, > with a big bold flashing message in the Welcome section to tell new > people where to go. I recently experienced something like this with > our local PHP user group. We tried to maintain both a forum and a > mailing list, but in the end just confused everybody. We eventually > deleted the forum. > > $0.02 > > Gerard Sychay > http://www.cincycoworks.com > > On Feb 9, 1:42 pm, Alex Hillman <[email protected]> wrote: > > I'm 100% with you, and will be doing some more research on Zoho's email > > integration. > > > > My hope is that for the people currently using the group and loving it, > very > > little will change. Zoho will just be a new engine that provides more > > options for organization and interaction. The BIGGEST gain, in my mind, > is a > > better process for guiding new people through existing > > information...something that even searching here is hard because with > > search, you have to know exactly what you're looking for. > > > > Threads, sub-forums, and context can guide new people to figure out what > > they're looking for...even if they don't know what it is yet. > > > > Again, great feedback from John, thanks man! > > > > -Alex > > > > /ah > > indyhall.org > > coworking in philadelphia > > > > On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:11 PM, John Sechrest <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > You will want to ask that question just a bit more detailed. If you > compare > > > how Facebook provides email notifications and how NING uses mail > > > notifications, you will find a really wide variance in usability. > > > > > I live in my email system, doing most of my work by email. Drupal > Forums, > > > Facebook and NING all fail for me in the notification of updated > threads. > > > They drag me away from where my attention is focused and are divergent > > > forces on my attention. > > > > > With NING it is REALLY bad at managing your connection from email to > the > > > website and updating you about a thread and letting your attention to > > > quickly flow to the task and back again. > > > > > Again, I don't know Zoho forums, but I am not able to engage in these > other > > > 3 methods of linking forums to email in a meaningful way. > > > > > I am however, able to read and track and process the google groups > flow > > > (since I live in my email space) > > > > > So the question I would interpret that you are wanting to ask is: > > > Can I see an updated zoho thread in my email and know what happened > with > > > it, without going to the forum? > > > > > (otherwise, what is the value of getting an email that says: "The > thread > > > was updated, follow this link"? ) > > > > > On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Mike Schinkel < > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> Hmm. Will Zoho forums provide email notifications of new and updated > > >> forum threads? > > > > >> -Mike Schinkel > > >> Ignition Alley Atlanta Coworking > > >>http://ignitionalley.com > > > > >> On Feb 9, 2010, at 12:46 PM, John Sechrest wrote: > > > > >> The difference between mailing lists and forums is much more complex > and > > >> much more subtle that you are outlining here. > > > > >> I have seen several efforts to move to forums blow up discussions. In > > >> addition, I have also seen moves like this end up translating into a > > >> biforcation of the conversation into two different groups. > > > > >> The choice of how you view data is a critical one. And I totally agree > > >> about the need for a tool that helps you focus your attention well. > For me, > > >> google groups + gmail does this well. > > > > >> In general, I have yet to meet a forum that I like. Web based forums > hide > > >> information and make it harder for me to find things. I find this > especially > > >> true of forum sites like NING. (pet peave) > > > > >> I do not know how zoho forums work, having never used them. > > > > >> For me, I am immediately suspicious when I see the word forum. Since > > >> forums usually take me more time to process, take more energy to keep > in > > >> context. > > > > >> I suspect it is an information processing style issue, since these are > the > > >> very issues you are trying to address. > > > > >> I would just urge caution. A shift like this from google groups to > zoho > > >> forums is likely to quietly and subtly alter who is participating, and > who > > >> stays connected to the group. > > > > >> I have watched other groups have a significant shift of membership > with > > >> tool changes like this. > > > > >> Be sure you are getting what you think you are getting. And be sure > you > > >> know which audience you are serving with the change. > > > > >> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 7:52 AM, Alex Hillman < > > >> [email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>> So, Woody just suggested that an active thread be moved out of the > main > > >>> channel so as to not disrupt others. While I think it was a good > topic to > > >>> keep in the group's visibility, his question of "can I move this to a > sub > > >>> folder" reminded me of something. > > > > >>> Google Groups kinda sucks. > > > > >>> To be fair, it's become our home. This is the most active repository > of > > >>> information for coworking, and the place where I send people first to > learn > > >>> more and meet more coworking people. But the Google Group is anything > but > > >>> good for discovery. Spam moderation is chaos for the people who > actively > > >>> manage it. The lack of sub-threads is annoying, and the lack of > message > > >>> context makes it hard to know what messages to pay attention to. > > > > >>> Recently, the open source javascript library jQuery moved away from > > >>> Google Groups for a lot of these same reasons...to Zoho forums. > > > > >>> I did some research and found that a Zoho forum to support our group > > >>> would cost $75/month, and incur a one-time $500 fee to migrate all of > the > > >>> existing data (messages, threads, and even users) from Google Groups > to > > >>> Zoho. There's even an option to interact with Zoho via e-mail for > those of > > >>> us that like this. > > > > >>> The pros: > > > > >>> - Much better organization of our knowledge. The ability to set > > >>> message "topics" to things like "question", "introduction", "idea" > would be > > >>> HUGE for this group. > > >>> - Easier on-boarding for new members > > >>> - Better spam moderation tools > > > > >>> The cons: > > > > >>> - It's not free > > >>> - Since it's not free, somebody needs to pay for it, which means > > >>> somebody is ultimately a "keyholder" > > > > >>> The cons aren't huge, but they do need to be addressed. > > > > >>> I think this could be a very valuable evolution of this discussion > forum > > >>> that we all love so much. What say you, the coworking group? > > > > >>> -Alex > > > > >>> /ah > > >>> indyhall.org > > >>> coworking in philadelphia > > > > >>> -- > > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > >>> "Coworking" group. > > >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > >>> [email protected]<coworking%[email protected]> > <coworking%[email protected]<coworking%[email protected]> > > > > >>> . > > >>> For more options, visit this group at > > >>>http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. > > > > >> -- > > >> John Sechrest . > > >> Corvallis Benton . > > >> Chamber Coalition . > > >> 420 NW 2nd . > > >> (541) 757-1507 . [email protected] > > >> . > > > > >> . > > > > >> -- > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > >> "Coworking" group. > > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > >> [email protected]<coworking%[email protected]> > . > > >> For more options, visit this group at > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. > > > > >> -- > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > >> "Coworking" group. > > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > >> [email protected]<coworking%[email protected]> > <coworking%[email protected]<coworking%[email protected]> > > > > >> . > > >> For more options, visit this group at > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. > > > > > -- > > > John Sechrest . > > > Corvallis Benton . > > > Chamber Coalition . > > > 420 NW 2nd . > > > (541) 757-1507 . [email protected] > > > . > > > > > . > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "Coworking" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > [email protected]<coworking%[email protected]> > <coworking%[email protected]<coworking%[email protected]> > > > > > . > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Coworking" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<coworking%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en.
