I'll be honest, I have a really hard time answering this question because I've been through this several times with our own locations, and hundreds (or more) of times with spaces I've advised.
*Every time the number is different.* Other peoples' numbers can be very, very deceptive because they don't tell the entire story. Exactly what someone else spent almost never matters, because you're not in the same situation with the same options or constraints as them. Indy Hall's original space (1800 sq ft) opened with <$10k, because the space didn't really *need* much in order for us to move in and start coworking. We made lots of incremental improvements along the way. Our *current* space was completely bare (no power, no HVAC, etc) and our landlord had offered us a TI (tenant improvement) budget towards the fit out. TI $$ numbers vary quite a bit based on....well, everything. Including how good you are at negotiating (btw first rule of negotiating - you don't want to be the one to throw out the first number). But that's not the point of me bringing it up. When we were negotiating our current lease, I got our TI budget in $ per square foot and simply did the math wrong, underestimating the budget *by a factor of 10. * I started figuring out how we'd make it work, and had a rough gameplan.I started asking for support with the larger "infrastructure" items and the landlord pointed out my miscalculation. We had a good laugh. *I had 10x more budget to work with than I thought I did. *But because I was so used to working with next to nothing, I had already started figuring out how to make it work. My point is: work within your constraints, and don't be afraid to ask the landlord for help. You're improving the value of *their* building. It took me a really long time to realize that that could translate to economic support. If I were in your shoes, and the landlord hadn't already provided a number they're comfortable spending, I'd be asking the landlord what they realistically are prepared to spend on improvements and then get creative with how you can accomplish goals inside of those constraints. -Alex ------------------ *The #1 mistake in community building is doing it by yourself.* Better Coworkers: http://indyhall.org <https://mltrk.io/link/http%3A%2F%2Findyhall.org%2F/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> Weekly Coworking Tips: <https://mltrk.io/link/http%3A%2F%2Fcoworkingweekly.com%2F/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> http://coworkingweekly <https://mltrk.io/link/http%3A%2F%2Fcoworkingweekly/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH>.c om My Audiobook: https://theindyhallway.com/ten <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Ftheindyhallway.com%2Ften/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 2:23 PM, Jen Luby <[email protected] <https://mltrk.io/link/mailto%3Ajenniferdl%40gmail.com/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> > wrote: > To anyone. > > On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Jerome Chang <[email protected] > <https://mltrk.io/link/mailto%3Ajerome%40blankspaces.com/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> > > wrote: > >> Hi. Is that “spend” question to me or...? >> >> Jerome >> >> On Mar 5, 2018, at 8:32 AM, Jen Luby <[email protected] >> <https://mltrk.io/link/mailto%3Ajenniferdl%40gmail.com/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH>> >> wrote: >> >> A follow up question: How much did you guys spend, and how big is your >> space? >> >> On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 11:03 AM, Jerome Chang <[email protected] >> <https://mltrk.io/link/mailto%3Ajerome%40blankspaces.com/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >> > wrote: >> >>> Hi. >>> >>> Another alternative is to use fluorescent lights, or their LED >>> equivalents, as Liz mentioned. I find them quite good to provide a general, >>> “ambient” light for the entire office. I had assumed that track lights >>> would cause some hot/cold spots, but it seems that even if they were to do >>> so, some people still prefer them in an office space setting. >>> >>> It’s creative to point these track lights against a wall or ceiling, >>> making them indirect lighting. However, I wonder if that effectively makes >>> them perform inefficiently...which then leads me back to fluorescent lights >>> that point down, but in an ambient not-hot/cold way. >>> >>> Different people do respond differently with 3500-4200K lights (btw, K = >>> Kelvin temperature), so it can be hit/miss. Above this range are usually >>> for clinical/hospital or warehouse environments; below for intimate, >>> residential or hospitality environments. >>> >>> Another spec to notice is CRI, which is color rendering index. >>> Basically, anything higher than 90 will allow you to see an object in its >>> true color. Sometimes you can have the right Kelvin temp, but a bad >>> CRI...no good. >>> >>> I’ve found LED lights range from about $150-$300+ for 4-foot length >>> fixtures. If you get an 8’ length, you’ll spend less $ per lineal foot. >>> >>> As for designing lights in the office to be as comfortable as at home, I >>> do want to clarify the reason that office lights are typically “whiter” >>> than at home, which are typically “yellower,” is that you’re usually at >>> home in the early part of the day, or evenings, both of which the sun is >>> more yellow. You also associate homes during these times more for relaxing. >>> Offices are usually occupied in the daytime and for work, hence the >>> brighter and often whiter lighting. No choices are actually wrong - it can >>> often be a matter of personal taste. >>> >>> For proof that fluorescent lights can look good, see here: >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fflickr.com%2Fphotos%2F27479309%40N03%2Fsets%2F72157627309965154/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >>> https://flickr.com/photo >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fflickr.com%2Fphoto/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >>> s/27479309@N03/sets/72157627309965154 >>> In this case, I mixed daylight and fluorescents. Also, this space was >>> designed before Title 24 regulations required LED’s. >>> >>> Finally, some might read these posts and interpret that LED’s are >>> optional - it’s a good point that they’re worth the upfront costs to avoid >>> any future operating/replacement costs. BUT, in some areas like California, >>> they’re required to comply to Title 24 regulations, not optional, for >>> nearly all cases. FYI. >>> >>> >>> Jerome Chang >>> Architect, founder >>> www.BLANKSPACES.com >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.BLANKSPACES.com/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >>> >>> On Mar 1, 2018, at 10:55 AM, Alex Hillman <[email protected] >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/mailto%3Adangerouslyawesome%40gmail.com/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Alrighty, here goes. This is going to cover a lot of what I learned, and >>> how we got lighting results we're really happy with. >>> >>> Again, it's basically impossible to give direct advice on how YOU should >>> budget without seeing the floorplans and even photos of the space itself. >>> >>> But here's what we did: >>> >>> These numbers are rough, but if I reverse engineer our lighting budget >>> from the overall project fit-out.... >>> >>> - We spent ~$7.50 per square foot on *all* of our electrical work, >>> which was almost entirely brand new (new wiring, power sockets, breaker >>> panels, lighting fixtures, switches....everything with power running >>> through it was basically brand new. >>> - Approx 25% of the electrical budget was lighting *fixtures**. *That >>> included tracks + LED track heads as our primary light source, accent >>> lighting, and special fixtures for inside our meeting rooms. So roughly >>> $1.80/square foot on light fixtures alone (this doesn't include >>> installation, wiring, switches, etc). YMMV, of course, but stacking this >>> number against other lighting upgrade projects I've seen and done...it >>> seems about right, plus/minus 10%. >>> >>> *Keep in mind, that's with all LED fixtures, which are often appear 2-3x >>> more $$$ up front but save a boatload in energy costs and you basically >>> never need to buy another bulb (which, in our old space, we spent several >>> hundred dollars a year on replacement bulbs for various non LED fixtures). * >>> >>> Now, I had a really hard time getting useful advice from folks who had >>> lots of experience with lighting for "traditional" offices. It seems like >>> lighting design for workspaces tends to be based around two assumptions: >>> >>> 1 - brighter is always better >>> 2 - desks and workspaces are bolted down and won't ever change location >>> >>> As a result, I kept noticing lighting design that was both inflexible, >>> and gave off what I can only describe as "office vibes." I'd never light my >>> home the way these offices are lit. Our goal is always to create spaces >>> that feel as *comfortable* as working from home...but are more >>> productive. >>> >>> The *best* design advice I got was from someone whose primary >>> experience wasn't office lighting design...but *theater* lighting >>> design. He was someone who really thought about how lighting impacts moods, >>> how people move through space, etc. He also had a lot of experience >>> adapting this knowledge to creative lighting installations, etc. He totally >>> understood what I was trying to achieve in terms of a lighting >>> *experience* and that we still needed lighting that would be good for >>> working under. >>> >>> On the downside...he ended up being a pretty shitty, unreliable business >>> person, so I can't confidently recommend him. But his lighting advice was >>> really good. :) >>> >>> To maximize flexibility, the bulk of our primary lighting source are a >>> standard (white, in our case) 3 wire "h-style" track system, which we laid >>> out like this >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fdangerouslyawesome.com%2Fsnaps%2FMonosnap_2018-03-01_13-02-36.png/8EHgnTaiJeihZ2wZCvqd>. >>> The diagram is a little tough to understand at if you don't know what >>> you're looking at, and there's one important piece that's missing >>> entirely, so here's the gist of our strategy: >>> >>> - We wanted to make it easy to turn all of the primary lights on/off >>> without having to walk across the entire space (our old location had lights >>> all over the place, turning them all on/off took a solid 5 mins of walking >>> around the space). >>> - We broke the tracks into "clusters" that would light each of the >>> primary work areas, and allow us to flexibly move the track heads around >>> - EVERYTHING ON DIMMERS. Some people like working in low light. Others >>> like it bright. Give yourself options. >>> - We used clusters of 3-5 white frosted glass pendant lights as "accent" >>> lighting in corners and other areas that were likely to be cozy little >>> lounge or breakout areas, like this >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fdangerouslyawesome.com%2Fsnaps%2FIMG_9679.JPG/8EHgnTaiJeihZ2wZCvqd> >>> . >>> - We found this incredible fixture >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Finlity.en.alibaba.com%2Fproduct%2F60286423852-802892397%2Fgood_design_ultrathin_pendant_lights.html/8EHgnTaiJeihZ2wZCvqd> >>> for >>> inside our meeting rooms, phone rooms, really any room that was going to >>> have a closed door on it. It's sleek, throws *really* nice light in all >>> directions, and is easy to mount either nearly flush with a ceiling or, if >>> you have the height to support it, suspended at a comfortable height. We >>> get a ton of compliments on these fixtures. They're also only ~$120 US a >>> piece. The only downside (and it's a big one) is you have to order them in >>> minimum of 10 units, and they're coming directly from a supplier in China >>> so it's going to take a few weeks minimum AND shipping can get expensive. >>> Thankfully, I was ordering enough (and early enough) to make it worthwhile. >>> - Our original fit out used a direct-from-china track head as well, and >>> I like them just fine, but when we expanded we couldn't get more of the >>> fixtures so I had to look elsewhere and ended up finding a great >>> dimmable LED track fixture >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.totaltracklighting.com%2Fmaximus-led-track-light-white-cone-line-voltage-fixture-head-12watt-wide-flood-3-wire-h-style-dimmable.html/8EHgnTaiJeihZ2wZCvqd> >>> that, even with domestic shipping, cut our per-fixture cost *in half (*from >>> ~$60/head to around $30). >>> - When choosing color temperatures, I tried to get fixtures that were on >>> the cool end of warm, more like residential bulbs. 3000k-3500k tended to >>> give the best color, more feeling like natural sunlight without being too >>> "glowy." 4k seems to be more "popular" in office settings but in our tests >>> it always felt too cold and sharp. At the same time, I learned that these >>> numbers aren't super consistent across manufacturers. When possible, try to >>> get sample fixtures and test them in the real setting, mixed with whatever >>> natural light you're working with. >>> >>> *The big thing that's not obvious about the lighting plan is that over >>> half of our tracks are actually turned upside down, and point the fixture >>> at the ceiling. * >>> >>> Originally, we installed all of our track heads the way you're used to >>> seeing them: pointed down and at an angle. The trouble we hadn't calculated >>> was how often a light would end up pointed directly in somebody's face. We >>> tried tweaking track positions, but avoiding one person's eyes almost >>> always meant pointing them into someone else's eyes. >>> >>> *The other problem was that - and this might sound obvious but bear with >>> me - lights work best when they have something to reflect off of. * >>> >>> The "shadow" problems you mentioned are a symptom of direct lighting, >>> something we generally were trying to avoid because it's harsh (especially >>> with glossy computer screens). We wanted the space to appear bright, but >>> without work areas (desks, etc) feeling like they were under a spotlight. >>> >>> We tried filters and gels, too, but the most effective technique was to >>> make sure that our track fixtures were directed at a nearby surface: a >>> wall, a column, a beam, ductwork...any surface that would help distribute >>> the light to the surrounding areas. Like this example, in our gallery >>> space >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fdangerouslyawesome.com%2Fsnaps%2FIMG_4063.JPG/8EHgnTaiJeihZ2wZCvqd>. >>> By pointing fixtures at the walls, the surrounding areas are cast in a very >>> comfortable indirect light. That seems to be the key. >>> >>> The *trouble* we ran into with our space was that in so much of our >>> space, the "walls" are just our windows to the outside world. They're great >>> for letting natural light in, but pointing lights at them was horrible. >>> They'd just shine the direct light back into someone's eyes, and do very >>> little to actually light the space. >>> >>> So in the rest of the space, we decided to flip the tracks upside down >>> so we could point the fixtures at our ceiling. Like this >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fdangerouslyawesome.com%2Fsnaps%2FIMG_2194.JPG/8EHgnTaiJeihZ2wZCvqd> >>> . >>> >>> By treating our ceiling like another wall (we'd already painted it a >>> bright color to reflect the natural light), and now we're able to get the >>> same general effect of LOTS of bright but soft, indirect lighting covering >>> almost every area of workspace. Nobody has to work under a spotlight. >>> Success. >>> >>> When we expanded our space in October, we took the same approach of >>> flipping the tracks from the start. The electricians looked at us a little >>> funny when I asked for it, but after it was in even they commented how nice >>> it looked. >>> >>> Whew. That's a lot, and kind of all over the place. But hopefully it >>> helps you think through the decisions you need to make, which will include: >>> >>> 1 - how to light for experience, not just function >>> 2 - how to "layer" different fixtures to help indicate zones and uses >>> 3 - making use of your existing tracks (or adding more of them to give >>> you max flexibility) >>> 4 - choosing fixtures, and finding ways to save $$ >>> 5 - using your constraints >>> >>> If I can help more one-on-one, feel free to shoot me an email. :) >>> >>> -Alex >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------ >>> *The #1 mistake in community building is doing it by yourself.* >>> Better Coworkers: http://indyhall.org >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/http%3A%2F%2Findyhall.org%2F/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >>> Weekly Coworking Tips: >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/http%3A%2F%2Fcoworkingweekly.com%2F/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >>> http://coworkingweekly.c >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/http%3A%2F%2Fcoworkingweekly.c/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >>> om >>> My Audiobook: https://theindyhallway.com/ten >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Ftheindyhallway.com%2Ften/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 6:41 PM, Alex Hillman < >>> [email protected] >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/mailto%3Adangerouslyawesome%40gmail.com/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> Jen - it'd also help to get an idea of what you're working with. Can >>>> you post a floorplan? Even better, a plan that shows where existing lights >>>> are? >>>> >>>> On Feb 28, 2018, 6:29 PM -0500, Jen Luby <[email protected] >>>> <https://mltrk.io/link/mailto%3Ajenniferdl%40gmail.com/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH>>, >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hey all, my landlord is asking for a lighting plan so he can get a >>>> sense of budget for the buildout...but this is not my forte. What kind of >>>> lights do you guys use in a) open work areas and b) private offices? >>>> Currently there are a ton of track lights installed (it's a former gallery >>>> space) but from what I've read those can cast unpleasant shadows. >>>> >>>> (Alex, I put you in the subject because I think you worked on this for >>>> Indy Hall, although I didn't find any previous posts about. My apologies if >>>> I'm wrong.) >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> Jen Luby >>>> >>>> Dayhouse Coworking >>>> Highland Park, IL >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Coworking" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected] >>>> <https://mltrk.io/link/mailto%3Acoworking%2Bunsubscribe%40googlegroups.com/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >>>> . >>>> For more options, visit >>>> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/op >>>> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Fop/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >>>> tout. >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Coworking" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected] >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/mailto%3Acoworking%2Bunsubscribe%40googlegroups.com/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >>> . >>> For more options, visit >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/op >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Fop/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >>> tout. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>> Google Groups "Coworking" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Ftopic%2Fcoworking%2FrxCt5ADwXBM%2Funsubscribe/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/to >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Fto/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >>> pic/coworking/rxCt5ADwXBM/unsubscribe. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>> [email protected] >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/mailto%3Acoworking%2Bunsubscribe%40googlegroups.com/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >>> . >>> For more options, visit >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/op >>> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Fop/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >>> tout. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> -------------------------------- >> Jennifer Dunham Luby >> [email protected] >> <https://mltrk.io/link/mailto%3Ajenniferdl%40gmail.com/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >> c: 847.207.0358 >> <https://mltrk.io/link/tel%3A(847)%2520207-0358/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Coworking" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] >> <https://mltrk.io/link/mailto%3Acoworking%2Bunsubscribe%40googlegroups.com/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >> . >> For more options, visit >> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >> https://groups.google.com/d/op >> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Fop/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >> tout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "Coworking" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Ftopic%2Fcoworking%2FrxCt5ADwXBM%2Funsubscribe/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >> https://groups.google.com/d/to >> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Fto/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >> pic/coworking/rxCt5ADwXBM/unsubscribe. >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> [email protected] >> <https://mltrk.io/link/mailto%3Acoworking%2Bunsubscribe%40googlegroups.com/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >> . >> For more options, visit >> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >> https://groups.google.com/d/op >> <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Fop/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> >> tout. >> > > > > -- > -------------------------------- > Jennifer Dunham Luby > [email protected] > <https://mltrk.io/link/mailto%3Ajenniferdl%40gmail.com/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> > c: 847.207.0358 > <https://mltrk.io/link/tel%3A(847)%2520207-0358/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Coworking" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <https://mltrk.io/link/mailto%3Acoworking%2Bunsubscribe%40googlegroups.com/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> > . > For more options, visit > <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> > https://groups.google.com/d/op > <https://mltrk.io/link/https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Fop/t8NZLSmn1YaYBpjoWmnH> > tout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group. 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