En relaci�n a Re: [CrashList] Self Determination- Support It!,
el 22 Aug 00, a las 18:14, Julien Pierrehumbert dijo:
> >>Or do you argue that there is only one
> >> imperialism?
> >
> >Yes. That is exactly what I mean. This is what Lenin meant, by the
> >way.
>
> Kautsky! ;-)
> Seriously, do you mean that all the surplus-extracting states of the
> world are united? I'm not sure I understand.
You attempted a trick, and I will not fall into it... ;-) Of course
I am not proposing a "super-imperialism" theory. Imperialists are
always eager to butcher each other. But, except under extreme stress,
such as it happened in 1914 and in 1939, they will not endanger their
grip of the rest of the globe. They are united vis � vis the non-
imperialist planet, in the sense that they need it to remain under
their hold and control. Since one of the consequences of WWII was a
succesful wave of colonial insurgence which lasted from 1945 to 1975
(Portuguese colonies) and brought the USA to the edge of the abyss in
Viet Nam, they are more careful now. Stupids they are not.
>
> >... "You
> >shall be what you have to be, or you will be nothing!" Well, we are
> >facing that alternative every time. Same will happen to Indonesians
> >and Timorese, same happens to the whole of humankind in fact.
>
> >...historic destiny...
>
> I do not share that deterministic faith. I want some kind of evidence
> before believing. Faiths are thing you make bloodbaths and gruesome
> mental illnesses with.
I admit that this is the way it can sound. But of course if there
were not factual evidence I would not accept the thesis. Only that I
am short of time.
>
> >This is quite an insulting paragraph, so that sorry if I answer with
> >some anger.
>
> Frankly, neither my post nor yours looks in any way like an insult
> compared to what some others have posted. Please accept my excuses if
> you were insulted.
>
> >1. You are quite an ignorant on these issues, it looks like you speak
> > because air is for free! Slavery was stamped away from the USA for
> >ever, racism remained
>
> I don't claim a serious knowledge of the American civil war. But I
> know enough to tell you that you got that fact wrong. It was ended
> later, and no one knows whether it will come back. I will say nothing
> else on that topic because it's off- topic. I'll just say that I agree
> with roughly half of your interpretations.
But you can answer me offline. I am interested in your opinions on
when the war ended.
>
> >I hate wars, but I do not shun at them, in
> >the same way that if you attempt to intrude into my house and try to
> >steal me you will not have a warm, tender reception.
>
> What did the South do to the North in 1861 or a bit before? It's the
> North who entered the South's house. And what did the albanians do to
> the Serbs in 1980+? Disclaimer: I don't support the NATO scum.
>
This "who shot the first bullet" kind of argument is useless. The
South generated the conditions and the necessity for war, the North
was forced to defend itself. BTW, it is interesting to note that your
argument is exactly the one with which English mill owners tried to
win the favour of their proletarians against the North. As to the
Albanians, things are more complex, basically because not all the
Albanians (probably not even a majority of them) was against the
Serbs, as you call them, or Yugoslavia as I prefer. But it's late
now. Bye.
...
>
>
> BTW, to someone else you said:
>
> >They are the ruling classes in the First World,
> >the true enemies of anything human (and natural) on this globe today.
> > Whatever benefits them is, certainly, for our tragedy.
>
> Is it not a little bit too manichean to look like an analysis of the
> real world?
>
I would gladly like it to be such a kind of analysis. Unfortunately
for all of us, it has still to be demonstrated wrong.
>
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N�stor Miguel Gorojovsky
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