I found Nestor's and leelock's posts very insightful. thankyou.jo*
On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:57:15 -0300 "Nestor Miguel Gorojovsky"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>En relaci�n a Re: [CrashList] Self Determination- Support It!,
>el 21 Aug 00, a las 12:19, leeenglock dijo:
>
>> does anyone have to be the bad guy when the common
>> people object and rise up against corrupt military
>> dictatorships?
>>
>> rgds
>> leelock
>
>The problem is, there does not "have to exist" the bad guy. The bad
>guy exists, and acts at the same time abroad and within your own
>frontiers. I would add, even within your own minds, dear friend. That
>is the basic point here.
>
>Common people do not think in isolation, but in an environment
>basically shaped by the information and the structures of
>subjectivity and objectivity that their existential situation in the
>world tends to mould. Of course, one of the basic tools in that
>shaping is to conceal the fact that this activity takes place all the
>time.
>
>In the case of the "common people in privileged countries of the
>globe", the influence of the establishment which fosters and furthers
>exploitation of the globe is immense and I guess that one of the
>reasons why this list exist is precisely to fight back against that
>influence. Corruption of military dictatorships in the Third World is
>simply the true face of the governments in the affluent countries of
>the planet, which would not be able to keep even the appearence of
>democracy that their citizens enjoy without those thuggish regimes.
>Only that this basic fact is kept a secret for common people there,
>and then they tend to believe that those dictatorships are a natural
>product of those poor countries abroad. Well, they are not. They are
>the natural product of First World domination and control of the
>world scene.
>
>Listen, leeenglock, I am an Argentinian, so that I have had to live,
>for years, through the situation you describe. True, and fortunately
>enough, not through personal ordeal but through those of friends,
>related people and/or some of the best persons I knew in my life.
>This allows me to bear witness and to alert against the
>misunderstanding of the political consequences of "good will"
>initiatives on our behalf when they come from imperialist
>governments. I guess this is the best service I can do not only to my
>fellow countrypeople but also to my own list of disappeared and
>murdered (almost every Argentinian has one).
>
>I will not burden you with a long recollection of my sad memories,
>nor will I expose my aching wounds here. It is not my mood. Probably
>this is one of the few national virtues of Argentinians: that we tend
>to be shy when the moment comes to expose our pains. It is a form of
>pride, after all. I beg you to take my words as valid on this point.
>
>On the other hand this list is not the place to do so. We are
>thinking about the Crash here, and the only thing I will say on this
>is that those people who have such suffered lived their lives and
>traversed their tortures and death because they were fighting in
>order to give the Crash a humane outcome, at least an outcome more
>humane than what seems to be now the only one at hand.
>
>We Argentinians do also know what is the actual meaning of "good
>will" imperialist worries about our own welfare. Once the military
>that worked ON BEHALF OF THE IMPERIALIST POWERS become useless, they
>were kicked away and Argentina was granted with "democratic rights"
>and we too, as you say,
>
>> benefit from not having villages destroyed,
>> husbands and sons dragged off in the middle of the night
>> never to come back, women raped by soldiers, etc.
>
>Only that, when the solution comes from the imperialist centers, the
>price is too high. Personal and individual rights, human rights, are
>turned meaningless when the regime that ensures them at the same time
>overrides and destroys the collective rights of the community. The
>conditions of our "return to democracy" were the acceptance of full
>destruction of the economic and social fabric that Argentina had
>managed to build in a hundred years of social and political struggle.
>Thus, the most progressive country in Latin America (socially
>progressive, I mean, I am not speaking of ideology here) was turned
>into a wasteland but, yes, no more violations to human rights were
>accepted. The only violation now in motion is the generalized rape of
>our country as such country. This is what will happen to those who
>are now under the "tremendous" rule of Jakarta: they will fall under
>the more terrible rule of a puppet regime or direct intervention from
>the Empire.
>
>Yes, dear friend, there is an obligation for those of us who believe
>that the Crash is imminent to, as you say, see what the hell is the
>"bad guy" trying to get from the mess. There is a good Christian
>saying that I think is fit here: "The road to Hell is paved with
>good intentions".
>
>No human right is worth fighting for unless the struggle is a part of
>the more general struggle for the basic right of the community to
>which these individual humans belong, that is their right to cease to
>be a puppet of the imperialists. If you ask me, I would give this
>basic rule of thumb: what will strengthen people in Aceh more in
>their struggle against imperialists (the true, actual, imperialists),
>separation from Indonesia, or the struggle to revolutionize
>Indonesia? I do firmly believe that the second path is the only valid
>one, no matter the odds.
>
>Thus, we take care of both human rights and the bad guys. Who not
>only exist, but shape the whole structure of the world and are
>merrily taking us to an apocaliptic nightmare of economic, social and
>ecologic destruction. They are the ruling classes in the First World,
>the true enemies of anything human (and natural) on this globe today.
>Whatever benefits them is, certainly, for our tragedy.
>
>So that I repeat my question, and I beg you to answer it, not to feel
>outraged by it, dear friend.
>
>N�stor Miguel Gorojovsky
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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