Thanks Tony. It's good to receive a considered response to any proposals
that list members choose to make. I will respond in capital letters below
for clarity:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Abdo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 11:04 PM
Subject: [CrashList] Re: Will Anyone Take Any Notice???
> OK, John....I do have a proposition. that is that we build a
> movement against the US war machine. This would take off the
> pressure to conform to elite initiatives only. It would support the
> right for other societies to try to throw off the yoke of American
> super-power imperialism. The ultimate goal.... would be to overthrow
> world capitalism, and restructure industry and agriculture in a manner
> that is sustainable.
> SOUNDS REASONABLE ENOUGH ON THE FACE OF IT. IF WE SUPPOSE THE MOVEMENT IS
ABLE TO GATHER MASSIVE POPULAR SUPPORT, AND BARRING VIOLENCE, HOW WOULD THE
US WAR MACHINE BE HALTED? HOW WOULD ANYTHING ACTUALLY CHANGE?
> I know that this is so 'old fashioned', and just not an 'in' idea. WHO
CARES? IF THE IDEA IS GOOD, SURELY THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS.
> So some people are ready to counterpose to a movement trying to overturn
> capitalsm, a set of propositions that are addressed in the abstract,
> asking for a modification and reform of capitalism as functioning at
> this time.
>
> <Thanks Tony.
> As mentioned previously, my only proposition at the current time is the
> Simultaneous Policy ...wwww.simpol.org... Have you any proposition to
> make? best
> John>
>
> >From the web site-
> <that fundamental changes to the capitalist system are essential before
> there can be any hope of closing the 'sustainability gap' or of
> expecting any tangible results from international agreements such as
> those on reducing emissions.>
>
> How are you going to obtain these changes to the capitalist system? A
> set of good wishes for the future is not a plan of action. THE SECTION ON
THE SITE HEADED 'IMPLEMENTATION' OR 'IMPLEMENTATION STRATEGY' (I FORGET
WHICH) GIVES AN OUTLINE. MY BOOK, WHICH I WOULD GLADLY SEND YOU A COPY (FREE
OF CHARGE) GIVES YOU THE COMPLETE PICTURE.
'A SET OF GOOD WISHES FOR THE FUTURE' IS EXACTLY WHAT SP IS NOT AS THE
'IMPLEMENTATION' SECTION SEEKS TO EXPLAIN AND THE BOOK WOULD SHOW IF YOU HAD
TIME TO READ IT. WHAT ARE JUST 'GOOD WISHES FOR THE FUTURE' ARE ALL THESE
CHARTERS, LIKE CHARTER 99, WHICH ARE ALL WELL AND GOOD BUT INEVITABLY GET
NOWHERE BECAUSE THEY DO NOT WORK THROUGH EXISTING POLITICAL SYSTEMS.
>
> more SP from the web site-
> <- that since capitalism can only be changed and controlled by politics
> - which has itself already been paralysed - we are heading for economic,
> environmental or social collapse without the means to alter that
> course.>
>
> What politics? Electoral politics? SEE MY COMMENTS ABOVE. Who
wants a more efficient
> capitalism that can institutionalize injustice in a more stable manner?
> Your reform is to just try to make capitalism less chaotic. This
> Simultaneous Policy effort is just a try at being a 'Radical" Think Tank
> for the elites of the capitalist world to use.
LIKE AARON AND A FEW OTHERS, I DON'T AGREE THAT YOU CAN JUST SIMPLY
'OVERTHROW CAPITALISM' AND REPLACE IT WITH GOD KNOWS WHAT ELSE FROM ONE DAY
TO THE NEXT. IN ANY CASE, THE POLICY PROPOSALS MADE UNDER SP ARE JUST THAT:
PROPOSALS. ALL WHO ADOPT THE IDEA OF SP CAN THEN AGREE WHAT POLICIES WILL
MAKE UP THE DEFINITIVE SP. I KNOW THIS SOUNDS SOMEWHAT CONTRADICTORY BUT
SHOULD BE CLEAR ENOUGH FROM THE SITE AND IS CERTAINLY CLEAR FROM MY BOOK.
>
> <In the case of arms manufacturers, for example, 'special directors' by
> their power of veto could ensure that all sales were strictly consistent
> with an appropriate global code of conduct. In contrast to regulation,
> therefore, the direct involvement in the boardroom decisions of all
> major corporations and institutions of the proposed ' special directors'
> would thus ensure that potentially harmful activities could be
> restrained even before they occur on the principle of 'prevention is
> better than cure'.
>
> 'Special directors' would not, however, be responsible either to their
> corporations or to governments.
>
> To ensure independence and an even-handed approach worldwide, special
> directors would be responsible to ISPO or to an appropriate UN
> organisation.>
>
> Oh come off it, this is a preposterous grouping of mish mash. It is
> shameful that Noam Chomsky would talk positive about this. It is not
> a serious anything in regard to changing anything. ASK YOURSELF TONY:
WOULD NOAM CHOMSKY (AND A NUMBER OF OTHER FAIRLY EMINENT PEOPLE) SUPPORT A
'GROUPING OF MISH-MASH??' - I THINK NOT. THAT ALONE OUGHT TO PROMPT A CLOSER
LOOK, DON'T YOU THINK?
>
> You are going to impose a super-structure of democracy over the
> multi-nationals. Meanwhile they can go about their work, including
> manufacture of armaments? How do you obtain this structure of
> democracy that sits at the head of The Board? You're invited in by
> the bad guys? Or is it in some sort of struggle against them?
> But then why continue to let them function as capitalist enterprises,
> with the whole profit extraction system still functional?
> AGAIN, ALL WOULD BECOME CONSIDERABLY CLEARER WITH THE BOOK. IT'S OBVIOUSLY
NOT PRACTICAL TO TRY TO EXPLAIN EVERYTHING ON A WEBSITE. THE HOPE IS THAT
THE SITE PROVIDES SUFFICIENT INFORMATION FOR PEOPLE TO ADOPT SP - AFTER ALL,
WHAT DO WE HAVE TO LOSE? FURTHERMORE, ADOPTING SP TAKES ABOUT 2 MINUTES AND
DOES NOT PRECLUDE ACTIVISM FOR OTHER MOVEMENTS SUCH AS THE ONE YOU PROPOSE.
> John, just try to build a movement against the US war machine that runs
> the world, instead. And I don't mean by proposing and working to put
> 'special directors' at the head of the army. Would that not be an
> effort to avoid The Crash? YES, BUT AS REQUESTED ABOVE, PLEASE EXPLAIN
HOW IT WOULD ACTUALLY CHANGE ANYTHING. Or is it too mundane? NOT
NECESSARILY - I LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR RESPONSE TO ALL THE ABOVE.
ALL THE BEST
JOHN
>
> Tony
>
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