In a message dated 9/2/00 7:56:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< I just assumed we would be living in a world with more or less the same
infrastructure and same energy capabilities as we have today. I still do not
know if the crash changes any thing that much, because for me, any society
that I would
envision, deals with the values that the society would promote, and those
values would apply crash or no crash.>>
I wish I could believe in that. That is what I would hope for. But what I
fear will likely happen will be more along the lines of the Rodney King riots
in LA, except the race line would be instead: that of 'who has what who
wants'.
<<What I do know is that capitalism thrives on humanities worst
characteristics, the 7 deadly sins comes to mind, and striving to make
society work in such a way that peoples better qualities are rewarded is
what I support.>>
People will take those 'seven deadlies', with them where ever they go, they
seem to creep out of the shadows of even the best without much warning. We
won't be outdistancing our physic goblins if the sky falls: we will be facing
them down everywhere we look.
Can you imagine Lenin at some early point trying to figure out how to ensure
that his followers actually followed his higher aspirations, and not their
own lower inclinations? Must have driven him nuts knowing what they could do,
but realizing that they would not.
Morality and ethics will not be legislated; 'good behaviour' is much tougher
to encourage without paying for it. Especially in a population raised in a
constant barrage of media promises of instant gratification.
How do you get people to behave better simply because it's better for them?
I've read the suggestions that behavioural conditioning is appropriate, but I
am not a B F Skinner fan, and I think we put that one to bed decades ago.
There is simply too much appetite for control over others in the human psyche.
<< As to exactly what that would look like I don't know. There are some
things I think are important, such as, people having as much say in an issue
as to which they are affected by it, Splitting up work in such a way that
everyone does as much rewarding work and drudge work as another. >>
Well, when you say this to a woman who has raised sons in a family in which
only the women do housework, just how do you think they will receive this
good news?
I'll tell you. They snort: Yeah, right. Everyone is equal, but some are more
equal than others and they are the men, not the women.
Some of my employees are women of southeastern asian cultures in which the
women earn all the income and the men stay at home (as holy men...).
I like your intentions, but I don't trust the execution of them by everyone
else, left to their own inclinations... There are exceptions, but I don't
know very many.
<<And of course no way to make a profit off of property ownership.>>
Oh boy. I just don't know where to go with this one. This country was
originally inhabited by peoples firmly convinced that land cannot be owned by
individuals.
And just look at it now.
Another telling clue is that although the native peoples seemed to inhabit a
literal paradise, most of them were continuously involved in inter-tribal
strife, not over land ownership, but territory nonetheless.
The only contemporary societies I can think of that have the sort of
structure you are thinking about are the ones deep in the rain forest that
are being eradicated as I write this. They have no natural defenses against
us except the rain forest: going, going.... way too quickly.
Sorry, I can't be more positive and upbeat around the future, but I'm not
seeing (and I use that word in more than one sense) a whole lot of good stuff
once the dominoes begin to topple. Not until the population is significantly
reduced (VERY significantly), will there be the sort and amount of mutual
cooperation for which you hope.
Most of the die-off will be natural causes, but how 'natural' considering the
mess we've been making in the biosphere is anybody's good guess. Then there
will be the natural human impulses to genocide as a somewhat lesser factor.
If there is any wildlife other than humans when the population reaches
bottleneck, it will be some kind of major miracle.
I see this within the next generation. I am not particularly sanguine about
the outlook, but realistically, we have created 'Interesting Times' for
ourselves.
We need to be prepared to deal with the unfolding circumstances with
flexibility and resourcefulness.
Joan
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