Just a couple of points about Jim�s and Carrol�s stance:
[Jim]> I think you miss the point of both the post that I
>forwarded to this list as well as the point that
>Carrol has been attempting to make here for some time
>now. And that is that we cannot expect to see such
>problems the energy crisis, global warming, or ecocide
>dealt with in a progressive manner unless there is
>in place a mass movement that is dedicated to resisting
>the ruling classes. And such a movement is most likely
>to appear under conditions of relative economic
>prosperity when it possible for workers to resist
>capital from a relatively favorable position.
There is too much qualification in the above statement for me to accept it.
I am wary of how you and Carrol would define �progressive�. �Resisting the
ruling classes� is a fine theoretical stance, but in the last 100 years just
defining how that resistance is to be concretized has hamstrung any real
movement toward the idea of �dealing with� �such problems the energy
crisis, global warming, or ecocide.� So the point you two miss is that if
you are waiting for that, you will be left behind in the movementS that are
springing up all around you.
[Jim]> Unless, a mass movement is in place, I think we can
>pretty much guarantee that when problems like the energy
>crisis, global warming, and/or ecocide come to a head,
>it will be our bourgeois ruling classes that will
>dictate how these problems will be handled, with
>all of the negative consequences that this implies.
Your prescription places all the eggs in one basket, and it�s a forlorn hope
as well. While you and perhaps Carrol see this as a call to a particular
mass movement that must meet a variety of criteria, I see this as a call to
acquire a larger consciousness about the issue, not so much to avert the
Crash (can�t do it) but to minimize the �negative consequences�. Yes, the
�bourgeois ruling classes� will dictate SOME of the response. Deal with it.
[Jim]In other words the best time for us to deal with the Crash is before it
happens.
Too late! You have missed the point Mark has been trying to show you in a
dozen posts of factual information. The Crash is here. You are much deeper
into it than you realize. If you are waiting for your organized mass
movement, you are waiting in line for a place against the wall. You must now
adapt to a VARIETY of approaches � all compromises � each having a piece of
the puzzle that merely mitigates the consequences of the appetites of 6
billion humans. (neo-malthusian, green doom, <G>) Start by organizing your
local watershed.
>To expect that
>a progressive social movement will arise after it
>occurs to take the inititiative is to my mind
>wishful thinking.
>
>Jim F.
Yes, of course. If you attribute that sort of fantasy to me, you have again
misread me. �After it occurs� will result in a scenario where �progressive�
and �social� are unknown concepts.
[Carrol] I too hope for great things from the Seattle movement -- but it
won't
happen automatically (that movement was too dominated by anarchists
on the one hand and racist labor bureaucrats on the other), and whatever
happens has to be well underway (and have roots in broader segments
of the population) before disaster of one sort or another destroys the
will to resist.
You have � if you can accept Mark�s posted articles -- until 2025 to save
even a part of the biosphere. The disaster is already well under way. Got a
plan to minimize its effects? Got a plan to do anything in the next 25
years? How long until you organize your �progressive social� mass movement
attempt?
Do not mistake my questions, I am not expecting a plan via the internet. Our
purpose here should be �consciousness raising�. I am not calling for
�action� as has been attributed to me, I think. It is my quixotic
aspiration to get you to see the forest through the trees.
Tom
PS why the Marxist derision about Anarchists and other �leftists?� It is
exactly that kind of parochialism that spells the doom of your �movement�.
Here in Eugene, my Anarchist friends LIKE you guys.
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