>I would interject that we don't see the IDEAS of control over nature giving
>rise to different methods humans have used to manipulate and transform the
>world. Materialists tend to think that the actual exercise of
>"controlling" nature (a loaded word, that one), gave rise to those ideas.
Yeah, this is a chicken and egg argument. I would argue that the IDEAS did
sometimes precede, and that the act of control did sometimes precede, and
that we DO see lots of examples where the IDEA gave rise. One has to make a
great leap to go from being immersed in nature to formulating an idea that
one can control any aspect of it, to actually taking that step to attempt
control.
>Are we talking about practices like setting the woods on fire to stampede
>animals over a bluff to get meat? This is what occurs to me when I hear
>echoes of the noble savage. I don't know if that's in the background here
>or not, but it certainly occurs to me. Humans are a technical success
>story, but may be an evolutionary blip on account of it.
This is where the difficulty comes in for describing what we are talking
about if one hasn't read the literature. (Takes too many words for me to
type to get the "theory" out to you.) The *basic* idea of control is that
the world was made for man and mand can control it. The *basic* apparatus of
control has been for man to kill (read eradicate) anything which threatens
his food. When you extrapolate that concept to modern society, you can see
this action and it's results everywhere in our culture. Man is steadily
trying to convert the planet into a place where nothing exists but himself,
his plants and animals and his "job." Everything is subject to his control.
That's an explanation, not an argument. I actually think Marxism sees this
and deplores it.
Thanks, Stan
tom
PS I don't applaud the "noble savage"! Look at the actions of pre-european
Hawaians to see how they exercised "control".
>"I am not a Marxist."
>
> -Karl Marx
>
>"Mask no difficulties."
>
> -Amilcar Cabral
>
>"Am I to be cursed forever with becoming
>somebody else on the way to myself?
>
> -Audre Lorde
>
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