CRM is a model for describing what has happened or what one believe has happended and also what one assume exists/has existed.
If one change all the scope notes 1) to future tense 2) to a hypothetical/conjuntive mode Can then the resulting ontology/conceptual model be used as a model for plans ? Regards Christian-Emil On 08.03.2012 16:03, martin wrote: > Hi Steve, > > Your analysis is perfect as ever. The question was more, if we should > create a specialization of the CRM, which would model explicitly the > temporal properties and entities associated with plans and planning. > "Abandonment" would then be an explicit class. CRM so far does not allow > to query, for instance, for how long a plan was pursued, and at which > date it was planned to be realized. > > So, the CRM covers the facts but does not provide all details someone > may be interested in. Therefore, an application being built to query > such things in cultural-historical documentation would be nice to see. > If yes, CRM-SIG may recommend an extension to the CRM. > > Would you agree? > > Cheers, > > Martin > > On 7/3/2012 7:36 μμ, Stephen Stead wrote: >> I am obviously missing something in this discussion. The documentation >> we have of a planned but not executed event is the documentation of, and >> produced by the planning process. If the plan is executed then we have >> an event/activity (depending on scale) following a plan (E29). If the >> event has not yet taken place but still might we have a plan with no >> instance of its use. If the plan is abandoned then we have an activity >> of E55 Type: Abandonment using the plan (E29). If it is modified then we >> have another E29 showing features of the original E29. >> >> If I build a 3D model based on the drawings of a building that was never >> built the I have an E31 that documents an E29 but the E29 was never used >> in an E7 Activity. >> >> So what am I missing? >> >> Yours in puzzlement >> >> SdS >> >> Stephen Stead >> >> Tel +44 20 8668 3075 >> >> Mob +44 7802 755 013 >> >> E-mail [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> >> LinkedIn Profile http://uk.linkedin.com/in/steads >> >> *From:*[email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *[email protected] >> *Sent:* 06 March 2012 15:09 >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Cc:* [email protected]; [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: [Crm-sig] Retrospective and Planned Events >> >> >> Dear all, >> I can't speak for the museum community, but to return to my familiar >> obsessions, there are in libraries many examples of drawings, >> sketchbooks, etc. that document planned theatrical performances that >> eventually never took place. For instance, there are documents about >> Edward Gordon Craig's project for a mise-en-scene of Bach's Matthew >> Passion both at the BnF< >> http://archivesetmanuscrits.bnf.fr/ead.html?id=FRBNFEAD000004234&c=FRBNFEAD000004234_a181 >> > and at the University of California Los Angeles< >> <http://archivesetmanuscrits.bnf.fr/ead.html?id=FRBNFEAD000004234&c=FRBNFEAD000004234_a181>http://www.oac.cdlib.org/findaid/ark:/13030/kt7f59p0kd/dsc/?query=matthew;dsc.position=1#hitNum1 >> >, and researchers would certainly benefit from information >> integration. >> <http://www.oac.cdlib.org/findaid/ark:/13030/kt7f59p0kd/dsc/?query=matthew;dsc.position=1#hitNum1> >> Best wishes, >> Patrick >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Message de : *martin<[email protected]>* >> 06/03/2012 14:08 >> >> >> >> >> Envoye par : >> *[email protected]* >> >> Pour >> >> >> >> [email protected] >> >> Copie >> >> >> >> Objet >> >> >> >> Re: [Crm-sig] Retrospective and Planned Events >> >> >> >> >> Dear Oeyvind, >> >> This is a use case, we have implemented at FORTH a logic with 3 >> time-spans as indicated below for the Germanische Nationalmuseum, >> but I am not sure to which degree there is an information integration >> need in the community at that level. I'd like to have a real user >> stand up and say: These are my data...there is a benefit is >> standardizing the interpretation... >> >> Cheers, >> >> Martin >> >> >> On 6/3/2012 2:51 μμ, Øyvind Eide wrote: >>> Dear Joao and Martin, >>> >>> I assume planned travel would be a use case, e.g., if a museum plans >> an expedition with a more or less specified route; then either the whole >> expeditions is cancelled, or the route is changed (as Amundsen's >> decision to go to the South Pole instead of the other one). I have no >> use cases connected to museum documentation, however; so it may be that >> it is just a theoretical possibility. >>> >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> Øyvind Eide >>> Department of Digital Humanities, King's College London >>> Unit for Digital Documentation, University of Oslo >>> >>> Den 6. mars 2012 kl. 13:36 skrev martin: >>> >>>> Dear Joao, >>>> >>>> No evolution so far. What we miss is a relevant use case, an existing >> practice of documenting planned events and their >>>> realization, where the option is relevant that the event does not >> take place or is significantly different from what was planned. >>>> Is anyone aware of such cases? For instance, recently, I have seen a >> raised interest in buildings not built. More precisely, many large >> building projects include distinct competitive plans. 3D Modelling >> allows to visualize such plans. >>>> >>>> One view is to create a "Real or Future Event", which may change >> classification to "Real" or to "Abandoned", but the identity condition >> between plan and realization poses narrow limits to possible semantics. >> However, it deals relatively well with events that have started but not >> yet ended. >>>> >>>> Another view is to explicate temporal realization plans as properties >> of a specialization of E29: There are 3 times: >>>> The time-span during which the plan was maintained (intended), the >> time-span for which the plan was planned to be realized, >>>> which may change frequently , and the time the plan was regarded to >> be realized or not. I suspect that a sort of >>>> "situation semantics" as in OIO, ("ontology of information objects") >> might be the right thing for the realization, i.e., not an >>>> event in the narrower sense, but a goal-oriented condition on reality. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> On 28/2/2012 4:47 μμ, Joao Oliveira Lima wrote: >>>>> Dear All, >>>>> >>>>> In the message [ >> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/pipermail/crm-sig/2008-September/001158.html >> ], Martin Doerr says that would "be interesting to discuss planned >> events as extension of the CRM". There is any evolution in this direction? >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Joao Alberto de Oliveira Lima >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Crm-sig mailing list >>>>> >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >> <http://lists.ics.forth.gr/pipermail/crm-sig/2008-September/001158.html>http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Dr. Martin Doerr | Vox:+30(2810)391625 | >>>> Research Director | Fax:+30(2810)391638 | >>>> | Email: >>>> [email protected] >>>> | >>>> | >>>> Center for Cultural Informatics | >>>> Information Systems Laboratory | >>>> Institute of Computer Science | >>>> Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) | >>>> | >>>> N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, | >>>> GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece | >>>> | >>>> Web-site: >>>> http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl >>>> | >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Crm-sig mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Crm-sig mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> Dr. Martin Doerr | Vox:+30(2810)391625 | >> Research Director | Fax:+30(2810)391638 | >> | Email: [email protected] | >> | >> Center for Cultural Informatics | >> Information Systems Laboratory | >> Institute of Computer Science | >> Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) | >> | >> N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, | >> GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece | >> | >> Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl | >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Crm-sig mailing list >> [email protected] >> <http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl>http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Exposition /*Miniatures flamandes >> <http://www.bnf.fr/fr/evenements_et_culture/anx_expositions/f.miniatures_flamandes_bnf.html>*/ >> - jusqu'au 10 juin 2012 - BnF - Francois-Mitterrand >> >> *Avant d'imprimer, pensez a l'environnement.* >> >> = >> > >
