Dear Robert, Stephen,
I think these questions are too complex for an e-mail discussion. It is
absolutely non-trivial to talk about
50% ownership. The CRM was clearly not made to describe business
transaction in the way you mention below. That needs a careful extension
and systematic description of the questions. We had formed a team to
investigate business models analyzing spectrum, but the partners from
Collection Trust dropped out later.
The first action would be to restart that work, form a team, and recover
all arguments in the minutes.
As CRM-SIG, we are interested in robust models that we can recommend as
standards. That requires a complete understanding of the issues.
The reasoning about owning a physical thing is very different from
owning an Information Object. Metaphoric analogies natural language is
built on can be very deceiving.
Any user of the CRM can make his own extensions any time. It is not a
virtue to reuse CRM constructs for areas not intended to. That causes
the typical mess of pseudo-compatiblity.
If we describe physical ownership as a E30 Right, we come in conflict
with the property.
I propose to split the questions.
Martin
On 21/3/2017 8:25 πμ, Stephen Stead wrote:
Robert
The question of a Right held by multiple people is indeed interesting.
Might it be modelled as all parties forming a Group that then holds the Right?
If the proportions of the Right held by individuals was important then I think
your suggestion of component Rights that form part of the overall Right and
each having a dimension would do very well.
Rgds
SdS
Stephen Stead
Tel +44 20 8668 3075
Mob +44 7802 755 013
E-mail [email protected]
LinkedIn Profile http://uk.linkedin.com/in/steads
-----Original Message-----
From: Crm-sig [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Robert
Sanderson
Sent: 20 March 2017 21:42
To: martin <[email protected]>; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] Rights model
Apologies for the delay in responding, we’ve been trying to map out the extent
of the information we need to track to enable research on historical art
markets and ownership.
One of the most interesting and challenging questions that has come up is
around joint ownership of a piece of art. Ownership of an object is clearly a
Right, but is it divisible with P148_has_component (via inheritance from E89)?
For example, if two Persons each own 50% of the value of an object, is there an
Ownership Right, which has two component Rights, each of which have a dimension
of 50% ?
Or would that mean that there are two halves of the expression of the Right,
perhaps the main clause and an equally long rider?
I think that answering this question will help with the broader question of the
meaning of E30.
Some use cases:
* Two dealers (Knoedler and Goupil) jointly pay for a painting, and later
jointly share the profits (or loss!) when it’s sold
* A donor donates 10% of the value of an object each year for 10 years (to
spread out the tax write off)
* A married couple divorce and agree to have half share in the value of their
statue
* The children of the owner inherit an equal share of the valuable manuscript
on the owner’s death
* The object is jointly owned by the city and the museum from when the city
and museum were indistinguishable as organizations
Many thanks,
Rob
On 3/10/17, 9:53 AM, "Crm-sig on behalf of martin" <[email protected]
on behalf of [email protected]> wrote:
On 28/2/2017 9:50 μμ, Robert Sanderson wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> Given the current model, I believe that E30 Right is an instance of the
holding of a Right, rather than the concept of the Right itself? For example, E30
is not “Copyright” or “Apache 2.0” or “Ownership” … it is “The holding of
copyright of an object by Martin”, “the use of Apache 2.0 for some code by Rob”,
or “Ownership of a house by Emma”.
Dear Robert,
Yes, here we should actually talk about three things: The holding of the
right, the content of the right, and the concept of the right. E30 is
intended to be the content of the right, which is relatively trivial if
it is just an instance of unspecified copyright, but not if it is an
individual contract. If the holding of the right can be merged with the
content or not, is to be discussed. See my previous message.
best,
martin
>
> If this is not intended to be the case, can someone provide an example
in RDF (your serialization preference is fine) that demonstrates two different
people holding two different rights over the same object?
>
> Given that … we are expected to then use P2_has_type to refer to the sort of
Right, and thus queries should look for: ?object P104_is_subject_to ?right . ?right
P2_has_type <actual_right> .
> If so, how would one refer to the Creative Commons licenses? Still with
P2?
>
> Many thanks!
>
> Rob
>
>
> Example of P104/P105/P75:
> {
> "@context": "https://linked.art/ns/context/1/full.jsonld";,
> "@id": "https://linked.art/example/object/31";,
> "@type": "crm:E22_Man-Made_Object",
> "rdfs:label": "Object",
> "crm:P104_is_subject_to": [
> "https://linked.art/example/Right/0";,
> "https://linked.art/example/Right/1";
> ],
> "crm:P105_right_held_by": [
> {
> "@id": "https://linked.art/example/actor/6";,
> "@type": "crm:E39_Actor",
> "rdfs:label": "Owner",
> "crm:P75_possesses": {
> "@id": "https://linked.art/example/Right/0";,
> "@type": "crm:E30_Right",
> "rdfs:label": "Ownership Right by Owner of Object"
> }
> },
> {
> "@id": "https://linked.art/example/actor/7";,
> "@type": "crm:E39_Actor",
> "rdfs:label": "Holder",
> "crm:P75_possesses": {
> "@id": "https://linked.art/example/Right/1";,
> "@type": "crm:E30_Right",
> "rdfs:label": "Copyright by Holder of Object['s information
object]"
> }
> }
> ]
> }
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Crm-sig mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Martin Doerr | Vox:+30(2810)391625 |
Research Director | Fax:+30(2810)391638 |
| Email: [email protected] |
|
Center for Cultural Informatics |
Information Systems Laboratory |
Institute of Computer Science |
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) |
|
N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, |
GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece |
|
Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl |
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_______________________________________________
Crm-sig mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Martin Doerr | Vox:+30(2810)391625 |
Research Director | Fax:+30(2810)391638 |
| Email: [email protected] |
|
Center for Cultural Informatics |
Information Systems Laboratory |
Institute of Computer Science |
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) |
|
N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, |
GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece |
|
Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl |
--------------------------------------------------------------
