Dear Robert,
Yes, exactly.
My argument about measuring non-physical things is that it does not
constitute an observation process, but an abstraction from observable
things. We can always use Attribute Assignment for such evaluations.
So, we can assign the word count to a text, without using E16 Measurement.
Best,
Martin
On 3/2/2021 11:52 PM, Robert Sanderson wrote:
Martin wrote in particular:
Reduce in CRMbase Mesaurement , P40 observed dimension, to E18
Physical Thing. Add 3 different properties “has dimension” in CRMBase
to E70 Thing, E53 Place, E4 Period (or E2 Temp Entity).
I agree with your argumentation, and believe that the changes in CRM
Base would be:
P39 measured:
Range changes from E1 CRM Entity to E18 Physical Thing
PXX1_has_dimension
Domain: E53 Place
Range: E54 Dimension
PXX2_has_dimension
Domain: E4 Period
Range: E54 Dimension
to be cognate with P43 has dimension for E70s.
The question would remain about the measuring of Non-physical Things,
such as the number of symbols in a E90 symbolic object... but I don't
have that use case, so am happy to leave the discussion to someone
that does :)
Rob
On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 4:31 PM Martin Doerr <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
**
*Posted by Robert Sanderson on 9/9/2020*
I believe that there is an inconsistency in the model for
measurements and dimensions.
E54 Dimensions are associated directly with E70 Things using P43
has dimension. So not every class can have dimensions, only those
that are descendents of E70.
However E16 Measurement's property P39 measured has a range of E1
CRM Entity, meaning that while (for example) an E53 Place cannot
have a dimension, it can be measured to have a dimension. This
seems inconsistent that an entity that cannot have dimensions can
still be measured.
I propose that the range of P39 measured be changed to E70 Thing
to resolve this inconsistency.
We have to distinguish measurement from dimension. In order to
measure something in a narrower sense, I need an observation of
something material. Dimensions can also be result of computation,
evaluation and estimation (forms of Attribute Assignment).
If we look at measuring in the narrower sense, we can count the
characters of a text on paper, but not the abstract text. The
logical representation of a text can be evaluated for its dimensions.
We cannot measure a place, but features at a place. See also Issue
388. But clearly, we can measure duration and extent of processes,
and comparing a clock, which provides a duration from the last
sync event, with some other transient situation or microevent, in
order to calculate absolute time.
So, we may assign the ability to be observed to E18 physical
things and E4 Period, or more narrowly to E5 Event.The ability to
be observed appears to need some common ontological nature, a
certain materiality interacting with measurable signals. Even the
lightning creates a plasma hose lasting some milliseconds. That
would need a new class “Observable Entity” as range.
Otherwise, we may regard measuring physical things and measuring
processes *as independent*. Then, we would need *another
measurement class*, such as “static measurement” versus “dynamic
measurement”.
Dimensions of other things, such as places in the abstract
geometric sense of the CRM, need not be based on a common
property. The place can only have diameters and areas as
dimentions, and may be some more exotic ones. The dimension in the
phenomenal timespan is of course that of the respective period
etc. So, my argument being that E53 Place, E52 Time-Span have
their own properties with range Dimension, without being regarded
as observable (rather results of observation).
I’d propose the following:
Reduce in CRMbase Mesaurement , P40 observed dimension, to E18
Physical Thing. Add 3 different properties “has dimension” in
CRMBase to E70 Thing, E53 Place, E4 Period (or E2 Temp Entity).
Extent CRMSci by E18, E4 IsA Observable Entity, and extend
Mesaurement P40 observed dimension,from E18 to Observable Entity.
Alternatively, introduce “Dynamic Measurement”in CRMSci.
Best,
Martin
--
Rob Sanderson
Director for Cultural Heritage Metadata
Yale University
--
------------------------------------
Dr. Martin Doerr
Honorary Head of the
Center for Cultural Informatics
Information Systems Laboratory
Institute of Computer Science
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
Vox:+30(2810)391625
Email: [email protected]
Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
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