Dear All,
I suggest to make a case study with Rebetiko. It is a relatively
confined tradition and living. We have access to a lot of material here
in Greece. By the way, we met a young lady from India who came to Greece
and has learned to play Rebetiko.
I think we should look at phenomena and people influencing each other,
protagonists, etc., of varying types appearing in a cultural space and
time, in particular concentrating at specific places and times. People
meeting in these performances and carrying the idea forward. A certain
"density" keeps it alive, like a species surviving. I agree with Franco.
Best,
Martin
On 3/9/2023 8:00 PM, Martin Doerr via Crm-sig wrote:
Dear All,
I think this is quite overstretching what an activity is. Of course we
can make quick and dirty use of any class. I cannot imagine, how an
"All Tango Performances" could be associated with a clear identity,
unity and distinction from others. This would mean that any type of
activity becomes an activity, isn't it? All specializations and
generalizations would then be identical with part-of of activities?
How would you then give an account of different strands of such
traditions? This model virtually denies evolution and variation. I
think that needs serious thought and a model which provides a much
subtler relation between an idea, its execution and its evolution.
Note, that any type is a Conceptual Object. Creating Tango as an E55
Type is a creation. I'd suggest to look at the new properties
connecting Types with periods in which they appear. The challenge is,
for me, not to provide a place to say "Tango is here", but to relate
individual activities, performances, music, fashions, costumes etc
along lines of evolution, variation and cross-fertalization.
Best,
Martin
On 3/9/2023 6:33 PM, George Bruseker via Crm-sig wrote:
I'm posting the following response text from Steve because the
mailing list software tosses his messages out:
Just a quick thought.
As you mention a set of individual performances (E7 Activities) you
could say that the individual performances (E7 Activity: performance
of Tango on particular day/time and at a particular place) P9i/forms
part of/a master E7 Activity (All Tango Performances).
E7 Activity (All Tango Performances) P16/used specific object/E28
Conceptual Object(Intangible Heritage of the Tango).
E7 Activity (All Tango Performances) P14/carried out by/E39
Actor(Tango Community)
You could also say:
E28 Conceptual Object(Intangible Heritage of the Tango) P94i/was
created by/E65 Creation P14/carried out by/E39 Actor(Tango Community)
This would make the community both the creator and performer of the
intangible heritage: which I believe is the current "best practice".
The timespan of the creation is of course open-ended as these are
"living" traditions.
HTH
SdS
On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 3:57 PM George Bruseker
<[email protected]> wrote:
I'd use the term 'forms of life' instead of 'intangible
heritage'. Then the likely closest CRM concept is E5 Event, at
least if you want to be able to associate to actors in any
direct way.
E5 Event "Tango" p11 had participant E74 Group.
Probably to be more expressive one would need an extension for
social life!
On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 3:18 PM Christian-Emil Smith Ore via
Crm-sig <[email protected]> wrote:
It is a good question. Also note that documentation of
intangible cultural heritage is in most cases ttangible.
According to UNESCO intangible cultural heritage is defined as
Article 2 – Definitions
For the purposes of this Convention,
1. The “intangible cultural heritage” means the practices,
representations, expressions, knowledge, skills – as well as
the instruments, objects, artefacts and cultural spaces
associated therewith – that communities, groups and, in some
cases, individuals recognize as part of their cultural
heritage. This intangible cultural heritage, transmitted from
generation to generation, is constantly recreated by
communities and groups in response to their environment,
their interaction with nature and their history, and provides
them with a sense of identity and continuity, thus promoting
respect for cultural diversity and human creativity. For the
purposes of this Convention, consideration will be given
solely to such intangible cultural heritage as is compatible
with existing international human rights instruments, as well
as with the requirements of mutual respect among communities,
groups and individuals, and of sustainable development.
2. The “intangible cultural heritage”, as defined in
paragraph 1 above, is manifested inter alia in the following
domains:
(a) oral traditions and expressions, including language as a
vehicle of the intangible cultural heritage;
(b) performing arts;
(c) social practices, rituals and festive events;
(d) knowledge and practices concerning nature and the universe;
(e) traditional craftsmanship.
Best,
Christian-Emil
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Crm-sig <[email protected]> on behalf of
Franco Niccolucci via Crm-sig <[email protected]>
*Sent:* 09 March 2023 14:54
*To:* crm-sig
*Subject:* [Crm-sig] Relation between E28 Conceptual Object
and E74 Group
In the UNESCO List of World Intangible Heritage many items (=
E28 Conceptual Object) are referred to specific gatherings of
people - commonly named “communities” in everyday's language
- such as:
Tango -> Argentina & Uruguay
Rebetiko -> Greece
Opera dei pupi (puppet theatre) -> Italy (Sicily)
These geographic names in reality mean the people, the
inhabitants (maybe not all of them): Argentinians, Uruguayos,
Greeks, Sicilians i.e. the social groups who are the
custodians/performers of these traditions.
So two classes are involved
1) The group (Argentinians, Greeks, etc.) = E39 Actor
2) The conceptual object representing the intangible heritage
(Tango, Rebetiko, etc.) = E28 Conceptual Object
Note that intangibile heritage is NOT an activity, it is the
abstraction of a set of activities and the way in which they
are traditionally performed, which manifests through
events/activities i.e. individual performances.
Which property - if any - can be used to relate such E39
Actors to the corresponding E28?
Thank you for any help on the above.
Franco
Prof. Franco Niccolucci
Director, VAST-LAB
PIN - U. of Florence
President, ARIADNE Research Infrastructure AISBL
Chief Technology Officer 4CH
Editor-in-Chief
ACM Journal of Computing and Cultural Heritage (JOCCH)
Piazza Ciardi 25
59100 Prato, Italy
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--
------------------------------------
Dr. Martin Doerr
Honorary Head of the
Center for Cultural Informatics
Information Systems Laboratory
Institute of Computer Science
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
Vox:+30(2810)391625
Email:[email protected]
Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
_______________________________________________
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--
------------------------------------
Dr. Martin Doerr
Honorary Head of the
Center for Cultural Informatics
Information Systems Laboratory
Institute of Computer Science
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
Vox:+30(2810)391625
Email:[email protected]
Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
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