Doug,
Comments below.
On 09/12/2015 4:58 PM, Doug Schaefer wrote:
Thanks Ed! (and Michael for the picture).
It was kind of entertaining. In any case, we generate this product
along with the rest of the product catalog, so it will always be
available for testing.
This is awesome and I’m glad we’re finally talking about this. In
fact, I think we also need to go beyond the contents of the simrel
repo and also consider popular 3rd party plug-ins, Pydev and
Nodeclipse come to mind. And Andmore which is coming in Neon will also
make this much worse and I’m planning on helping clean that up.
Yes, unfortunately once it's installed, it's just all "Eclipse" to the
end user, so if others mess things up, they mess it up for all of us...
You bring up a great point about the Toolbar. It’s the most obvious
affect of the tragedy of the commons, and it’s why I’m having a
personal war against it. Do these buttons really need to be in the
face of the user all the time?
I would say not, and certainly not in every perspective either.
How often are any of these actually used versus the real estate they
take up.
Indeed.
Wouldn’t it look better if we had fewer toolbar buttons but make them
a little bit larger to make them easier to understand for new users?
I actually like them small. But there's no accounting for personal
taste. Of course there could be a preference for toolbar button size
(like Windows has for the task icons, which I have set to small), but
unless an army of graphic designers make nicer large icons, that will
probably look crappy.
How do we make this better?
Get everyone to agree on the one way that's best. :-P With EMF I took
pains to ensure that it has no visible footprint when installed. For
Oomph we also tried to minimize visual footprint, so the toolbar buttons
we really like (and that are super handy, if you're actually using
Oomph) are not visible by default, but are easily made visible via a
preference (and of course that preference can be recorded so I always
see it and you never do).
While on the topic, one of the horrible things I always hit is those
navigator toolbar buttons that I use a lot, but it navigates to a
different editor, which has different toolbar contributions, so the
navigator buttons move, and I have to hunt it down again, or hit the
wrong button. It's super frustrating.
And yes, the Launch Bar. Lots of Eclipse veterans complain about how
it doesn’t fit in with the rest of the toolbar.
It definitely doesn't fit in. But I understand the design intent is good.
But take a look at the New Connection… item and how it really doesn’t
fit in the 16 pixel height. It looks horrible.
Where does it come from? My IDEs never have that, but of course I mostly
use the committers package with some modeling tools installed. But I
didn't see it in JEE either.
When you turn off most of the toolbar buttons like I always do in my
workspaces, the Launch Bar looks kinda nice and it’s really easy to
swap launch configurations, modes and targets and hit the start button
to kick off a launch. Now, clearly as this picture shows, it sticks
out a bit too much. But I’ve always said I am open to find a solution
that makes everything look better.
One of the fundamental issues is whether I need all these toolbars in
all perspectives. It would be nice if you could create a cool CDT
perspective without all the other things you don't need/want showing up.
Easier customization would help, but it would be annoying to have to
repeat those customizations for each workspace each time...
Doug
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