[CTJUG Forum] Re: Java Developer needed

Wed, 15 Feb 2006 00:15:55 -0800

1. Ive got you requirements closely match
   e.g
   * ive got the basics Servlets, JSP, JDBC, Ant
   * some knowlege of Struts(although i havent work with it in a project), Barracuda
   * a reasonable salary expectation and im currently just doing Oracle Web
     Development.
   * ive got knowledge of MVC(Design Patterns)
   * ive got a National Diploma studying towards my BTech
 
   would you consider hiring me Dr.
[Dr Heinz M. Kabutz]  Well, um, no.  I would not, even if I was looking for someone.  But that decision has not got much to do with your technical ability or any physical characteristic you may possess.
 
2. Dr. you are comparing Rands with Euro's. I really hope you compared the cost
   of living between RSA and any European country.  
[Dr Heinz M. Kabutz]  e.g. Greece.  Java programmers earn 1000 EUR per month.  Cost of living is higher than here.  Germany, programmers don't earn much more than here, and the cost of living is huge.  Ireland, you heard Johan Steyn.  He does not even own property yet, and he saves as much each month as here.
 
3. Dr... was you major Stats
[Dr Heinz M. Kabutz] It was computer science. "Performance Evaluation of Concurrent Communicating Systems using SDL and Stochastic Petri Nets."
 
4. I wonder where you will get a graduate who just finished studies
    will get a Sun Certificate if(1 of your requirements){over-ride national
    qualification}....   And that also means probs by you
    that a Sun or any MSDN oops is a much better qualification than
    then any national degree or diploma...
[Dr Heinz M. Kabutz] Did I say that? I thought I wrote "preferably".  Whereas I wrote "BSc Honours" as a requirement.
 
5. Makes me wonder how some1 becomes a good Java Developer
   Do a SUN certificate or get a Degree or Diploma or by ne means get a Java JOB
   gain experience and do well and be a good JAVA developer
 
[Dr Heinz M. Kabutz] Well you have the option of getting involved in building an application / web site that is spectacular.  Get all your friends involved that are sitting at home wishing for a Java job.  As I said, I can't drive this thing, so it will be up to guys like you to push it.  I won't drive it, because I don't need it.  So there is no pressing urgency for me to take time out of my schedule to do this.  But I will help.
 
"Dr Heinz M. Kabutz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Maybe we should try to discover, as a group, what makes someone a good Java Programmer.
 
If I needed to hire someone, I would prefer someone with the following qualifications:
 
1. BSc Honours in Computer Science
2. Reasonable salary expectations
3. Extremely hardworking
4. Knowledge of the following technologies (not necessarily expert in all): J2SE, J2EE (incl Servlets, JSP, Struts, JSF, JDBC, Ant, JUnit, Design Patterns, IoC, AspectJ, Hibernate, Spring, etc.)
5. Preferably Sun Certified Programmer for the Java 5 Platform
 
And frankly, the pigmentation of the skin there would not be an issue at all.  So, if I want to compete with other developing countries, I don't think that I could afford to pay more than EUR 1000 per month.  Even that is too high.  In some countries in Europe, Java programmers get less than that.
 
The way I understand the labour law here, once you hire someone, you are stuck with them.  If he does not perform in the first three months, and I have not given him adequate training / support / handholding / etc. in that time, then I could be taken to the CCMA for getting rid of him / her / it.
 
So therefore, I would only want to hire someone with good qualifications, who has proven himself by being a reliable good worker at other companies.
 
Such a person would laugh at EUR 1000 a month.
 
Heck, I would not work for EUR 1000 a month.  I would rather go to Ireland and earn EUR 8000 a month...
 
So, Mr Java Mad and the rest of CTJUG, what constitutes a good Java programmer in your eyes?
 
Would it help if we put together a set of minimum requirements that we present to potential employers?
 
Kind regards from

Heinz
--
Dr. Heinz M. Kabutz (Maximum Solutions)
Sun Java Champion
Author of "The Java(tm) Specialists' Newsletter"
<http://www.javaspecialists.co.za/>
Tel: +27 (83) 340-5633
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Ben van der Merwe
Sent: 14 February 2006 17:15
To: [email protected]
Subject: [CTJUG Forum] Re: Java Developer needed

Java Mad,

Please re-read Heinz's message. He is taking both you and the topic seriously and is otherwise just challenging you a bit.

Regards,
Ben

Java Mad wrote:
Well i have 1.5 years experience in Java and even more experience in Oracle PL/SQL and im not in the industry
Now Dr. Heinz you explain that....
Please explian to me why i cant re-enter the Market as a Java....PLEASE DR
What makes me different Huh...
How many other developers of colour is going through the same thing.
 
I hope that makes SENSE or is it senseless Dr.

"Dr Heinz M. Kabutz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey Java Mad,
 
I'm still seeking an answer to the mystery of why there are no available skills here in Cape Town.  Gauteng seems to have the same problem.
 
Prove me wrong.  No problem.  But give me an explanation that makes sense...
Kind regards from

Heinz
--
Dr. Heinz M. Kabutz (Maximum Solutions)
Sun Java Champion
Author of "The Java(tm) Specialists' Newsletter"
<http://www.javaspecialists.co.za/>
Tel: +27 (83) 340-5633
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Java Mad
Sent: 14 February 2006 16:03
To: [email protected]
Subject: [CTJUG Forum] Re: Java Developer needed

Im gona prove you wrong Heinz....
Like you said here is no skills
Ive got 1.5 years experience
Im not Black neither White maybe Khoi-San, San, not even Malaysian
The second minority
Still stuck somewhere in between... a proud south african
 
 
But still bet a white person will get the post if Riaan will tell the truth about the outcomes of the post

Riaan Koegelenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi Heinz

I am not sure, but the client, for whom we are going to do
the contract, has requested a BEE appointment. I would
therefore think that they are quite serious about it.

Regards

Riaan


On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 14:11:01 +0200
"Dr Heinz M. Kabutz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
>Hi Riaan,
>
>we had an interesting discussion the other day on CTJUG
>where I was shot down for suggesting that it is getting
>more difficult for white males to get Java development
>work and that this is one of the reasons that ! we are
>experiencing a shortage of skills in Cape Town.
>
>In this particular job, how critical is it that the
>person be black?
>
>Kind regards from
>
>Heinz
>--
>Dr. Heinz M. Kabutz (Maximum Solutions)
>Sun Java Champion
>Author of "The Java(tm) Specialists' Newsletter"
>
>Tel: +27 (83) 340-5633
>
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