-Caveat Lector-
You know, this whole thing takes me back to the time when I wrote "A Tale of
Two Cities". It took quite a while to finish it, though, as I was busy with
the Polio vaccine at the same time, as well as having just returned from
walking on the moon. Of course, none of this compares to the work I had to
do on "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band". That George Martin is a real
douchebag. Well, I'd love to keep talking about this, but I have to go and
accept my Oscar for directing "Saving Private Ryan" and my emmy for my
writing on "Frasier".
Richard
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MARK [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 12:49 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Wrong, wrong, wrong, Again you are falsely claiming credit for which
> you should not. The leaflet "A Nation Under Threat" was in fact written
> by my Good Friend, Alison Stalegrey, and I am sure she will have no
> reason not to begin proceedings for you claiming her work as your own,
> (As you did with Francis Dunnery's excellent paper "Anti-Statism - more
> than a state of mind" back in 1993).
>
> I do not wish to get into a personal battle on this list, however, if
> you continue to claim the hard work of others as that of your own,
> measures will have to be taken.
>
> M.A.R.K.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Source - Richard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: 02 February 1999 16:30
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order
> >
> > -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > M.A.R.K. again, in your desperation to make me look foolish, you trip
> > and fall upon your own dagger.
> > It was me who wrote the 1992 leaflet 'A Nation Under Threat', me who
> > published it and me who distributed it.
> >
> > Please can you add something to the discussion, not try and take stuff
> > away.
> >
> > Richard B.
> >
> > MARK wrote:
> > > -Caveat Lector-
> > >
> > >Richard, how dare you claim these thoughts as your own, when they
> > were
> > >published in the Anti-Fascist leaflet "A Nation Under Threat" freely
> > >available in the Tower Hamlets area since the BNP's horrendous
> > increase
> > >in public awarenss.
> > >
> > >I agree unequivocally with these thoughts, however, how DARE YOU
> > claim
> > >them as your own. You are a Charlatan and a Fraud.
> > >
> > >M.A.R.K.
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Source - Richard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > >> Sent: 02 February 1999 14:13
> > >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order
> > >>
> > >> -Caveat Lector-
> > >>
> > >> What i find most interesting with this current debate is the
> > distinct
> > >> lack of knowledge being displayed across the CTRL community. In
> > >> particular
> > >> regarding the rise of fascism in Britain (i know for sure we have a
> > >> large
> > >> number of UK members on this list including the outspoken M.A.R.K.
> > >> (psuedonym)). I beg of you all to read my comments (particularly
> > >> Teo1000, flw, J2
> > >> and Alamaine).
> > >>
> > >> With the re-emergence of Fascist and far-right parties throughout
> > >> Europe
> > >> and America, especially during the 1980's, we have been alerted to
> > the
> > >> presence
> > >> of Racist and Fascist beliefs in our own country. In September
> > 1993,
> > >> Derek Beackon of the Nazi British National Party was elected to a
> > >> council seat
> > >> in
> > >> East London. Despite being defeated at the next election, he
> > increased
> > >> his vote by a third. It would be a mistake to think of Neo-Fascists
> > as
> > >> a
> > >> bunch of
> > >> skinhead thugs picking on ethnic groups that they see as lower than
> > >> then
> > >> on the social ladder. The traditional stereotype of Nazi 'thugs'
> > does
> > >> hold
> > >> true for
> > >> the majority, but their actions are often organised and directed by
> > >> small
> > >> cliques of, intelligent and systematic individuals. The Neo-Nazi
> > >> revival
> > >> is not just a
> > >> mish-mash of 'fascist filth' and 'racist scum' (ANL newsletter,
> > 1996),
> > >> but a highly organised and well orchestrated attempt to sway
> > majority
> > >> opinion (take note Teo1000).
> > >>
> > >> How do Neo-Fascist organisations attempt to win over the public in
> > a
> > >> Britain that is greatly opposed to them? Firstly, and most
> > >> importantly, by not
> > >> appearing to be Nazi in origin (unlike M.A.R.Ks ridiculous
> > suggestion
> > >> last week!!). In 1967, in a letter to William Pierce of the
> > American
> > >> Nazi
> > >> Party, John Tyndall, then leader of the National Front said that:
> > >> "The NF could not be openly Nazi because it would be stuck in the
> > mire
> > >> of
> > >> the Second World War and the death camps". He went on to say how he
> > >> had
> > >> not abandoned his faith in Hitler or the Swastika, but the British
> > >> public
> > >> were not prepared to accept open Nazism yet; so the NF must "hide
> > >> behind
> > >> the
> > >> Union Jack and phoney patriotic jargon until the time was ripe to
> > go
> > >> public with a mass Nazi movement" (John Tyndall quoted in Gable,
> > >> 1991).
> > >> Obviously, Tyndall was aware of the Zietgeist (The overall
> > direction
> > >> of
> > >> social norms) in Britain at the time and realised that declaring
> > >> themselves
> > >> to be
> > >> openly Nazi, would do more harm to their cause than good. Around
> > that
> > >> time, members of the NF stopped using the obviously Nazi sun-wheel
> > >> symbol,
> > >> and adopted the Union Jack as their most prominent badge. Various
> > Nazi
> > >> organisations throughout Europe have begun in this manner, using
> > >> patriotism
> > >> to
> > >> get a foot in the door whilst maintaining good relations with other
> > >> secretly, or openly, Nazi groups at home or abroad.
> > >>
> > >> We can see evident in the behaviour of neo-fascist outfits at least
> > >> three
> > >> of the four behavioural styles proposed by Moscovici (1976). The
> > first
> > >> two are
> > >> Consistancy and Rigidity. A minority that remains consistant in
> > it's
> > >> argument is more likely to influence a majority, than one that is
> > >> inconsistant. The
> > >> Neo-Fascists remain undaunted in their convictions that events such
> > as
> > >> the holocaust did not happen, their racist views and especially
> > their
> > >> anti-Semitism
> > >> have lead Nazi Revisionists such as David Irving, for who the BNP
> > >> supply
> > >> 'bodyguards', to publish articles and books in an attempt to
> > rewrite a
> > >> history
> > >> that is against them. In BNP literature a study by none other than
> > >> Hans
> > >> Eysenck that appears to support the belief that whites are more
> > >> intelligent
> > >> than
> > >> blacks, is constantly referred to without reference to criticisms
> > of
> > >> Eysencks methodology, or reference to counter-arguments or
> > alternative
> > >> interpretations
> > >> of the data. Labov's (1970) study into 'Black English' is a good
> > >> example
> > >> of how scientists can interpret data incorrectly. Labov (1970) and
> > >> Stewart
> > >> (1970)
> > >> both pointed out that many Afro-Americans speak a grammatically
> > >> different
> > >> form of English. Since IQ tests are administered in Standard
> > English,
> > >> the
> > >> lower scores of Afro-Americans (which could be perceived as due to
> > >> lower
> > >> intelligence) are probably due to their different dialect. There
> > are
> > >> far
> > >> more
> > >> general arguments, especially in recent years, rejecting the
> > validity
> > >> of
> > >> IQ tests and other psychometric testing altogether. Some
> > >> psychologists,
> > >> such as
> > >> Gardener (1983), with his theory of multiple intelligence suggests
> > >> that
> > >> poor performance on IQ tests could merely signify the absence or
> > >> presence
> > >> of
> > >> specific types of intelligence. Also, interpretations of
> > intelligence
> > >> test results are now considered relative to specific cultural
> > context.
> > >> Native
> > >> Americans and
> > >> Indians place greater importance on certainty, and would rather
> > answer
> > >> 'I
> > >> don't know' or 'I'm not sure' to a question if they are not
> > absolutely
> > >> certain of
> > >> the answer. In Western culture, we are more likely to 'have a
> > guess'
> > >> (Sinha 1983, Triandis 1989).
> > >>
> > >> However, your average Neo-Fascist won't give two hoots about
> > >> scientific
> > >> argument unless the conclusion supports his existing belief. The
> > >> ideology
> > >> comes first and the Neo-Fascist looks for anything to back it up,
> > no
> > >> matter how trivial, unreliable or discredited. Although many would
> > >> think that
> > >> Fascism
> > >> died in 1945, the ideology lives still and those who adhere to it
> > show
> > >> no
> > >> sign of relinquishing their grip. Clinging to a universally reviled
> > >> ideology with
> > >> negligible academic support seems wonderfully demonstrative of both
> > >> behavioural consistancy and ideological rigidity.
> > >>
> > >> The third behavioural style is the presence of a seemingly flexible
> > >> argumentative technique. Attempts are made to rationalise their
> > >> beliefs and
> > >> portray them
> > >> as truth. They take real-life problems that genuinely concern
> > people,
> > >> like unemployment and housing shortages, and supply answers that
> > are
> > >> both in
> > >> line
> > >> with their xenophobic and homophobic opinions and which seem
> > sensible
> > >> to
> > >> somebody who doesn't know better. It is easy to be fooled. For
> > >> example: In
> > >> an area with high unemployment, a shortage of affordable housing
> > and a
> > >> minority of immigrant workers, the Fascist would have you believe
> > that
> > >> "the
> > >> immigrants are stealing our jobs and houses". I am of course,
> > talking
> > >> about Tower Hamlets on the Isle of Dogs in East London. Local
> > >> residents were
> > >> lead
> > >> into voting for the Derek Beackon of the BNP, who put forward such
> > an
> > >> argument, purely because they were not supplied with a counter
> > >> argument. In
> > >> fact, in the Tower Hamlets area, 980 luxury properties in the
> > >> ill-fated
> > >> Canary Wharf lie empty as they are privately owned and over-priced
> > >> (Personal
> > >> communication from ANL volunteer, 1996). National unemployment is
> > >> approaching 10% yet only 2% of the population are immigrants or
> > >> refugees.
> > >> Exactly how are 2% of the population (many of which are also
> > >> unemployed)
> > >> supposed to steal the jobs of 10% of the British populace? Even an
> > >> elementary argument like this, based on statistics and simple
> > >> mathematics, holds no sway over the BNP. I have not come across any
> > >> attempt to
> > >> address
> > >> this criticism in BNP literature.
> > >>
> > >> The NF or the BNP (they change their name often, in order to throw
> > of
> > >> stigmatisation by negative associations) display a public face of
> > >> flexible,
> > >> rational
> > >> patriotism. Proclaiming that they only want what's best for their
> > >> country, they deny that they have a Nazi agenda. Should they seem
> > >> dogmatic or
> > >> rigid they
> > >> risk lessening their ability to influence the majority or actually
> > >> dividing the majority, gaining a few conversions but forcing the
> > >> majority view
> > >> further to the
> > >> opposite extreme. This phenomenon is called Bi-polarization and can
> > >> result when a minority argues in a rigid as opposed to flexible
> > >> manner.
> > >> Although in
> > >> an Orthodox minority (whose views are in line with prevailing
> > norms,
> > >> or
> > >> zietgiest) such as environmentalism, a rigid argumentative style is
> > >> the
> > >> more
> > >> helpful, in a Heterodox minority (whose opinions are against
> > >> prevailing
> > >> norms) such as Neo-Fascist beliefs, a flexible argumentative style
> > is
> > >> more
> > >> effective (Mugny and Papastamou 1975-6) and this is what we see
> > >> displayed
> > >> in Nazi style outfits.
> > >>
> > >> I now turn to behavioural styles less often displayed, practised or
> > >> perceived in Neo-Fascist organisations. The first of these is
> > >> Investment
> > >> (Moscovici's
> > >> term). A minority that is perceived to be making a personal
> > sacrifice
> > >> for
> > >> their cause will be viewed in a better light and probably be more
> > >> convincing than a
> > >> minority who have little to lose or something to gain from
> > >> promulgating
> > >> their views. This issue is a little more difficult as the concepts
> > of
> > >> loss
> > >> and gain are
> > >> fuzzy. By adhering to their views, Neo-Fascists do not appear to be
> > >> making any great sacrifice. Exactly how these organisations are
> > funded
> > >> and the
> > >> amount of work they place on individual members is not known for
> > sure.
> > >> The BNP are secretive about such matters, but there is evidence of
> > >> support
> > >> from
> > >> extreme right-wing members of the conservative party, and other
> > >> 'respectable' patrons (ANL, 1996). However, when it comes to
> > personal
> > >> sacrifice it
> > >> looks like the average member of the BNP subscribes to their
> > >> newsletter,
> > >> Spearhead and occasionally turns up for racist rallies, such as the
> > >> anniversary of
> > >> Rudolph Hess' death, which is commemorated each year by Nazi's
> > >> world-wide. All in all, the perception, if not the actual
> > investment
> > >> of individuals
> > >> is
> > >> low. Perhaps if Neo-Fascist organisations were seen to be
> > surrendering
> > >> something for their cause, rather than acting out of self-interest
> > >> their
> > >> message
> > >> would be more persuasive.
> > >>
> > >> The final behavioural style I shall look at is Autonomy. This ties
> > in
> > >> with the theme of self-interest. Evidence leads us to believe that
> > a
> > >> minority
> > >> acting out of
> > >> principle alone is more effective at swaying majority opinion than
> > a
> > >> minority that is seen to be gaining something from promulgating a
> > >> cause
> > >> (Moscovici,
> > >> 1976). the example given by Brown (1988), is that of a famous
> > >> personality
> > >> endorsing an unpopular campaign. They will be more credible if we
> > are
> > >> certain
> > >> that they are not being paid large sums of money for appearing. The
> > >> BNP
> > >> although not openly seen as receiving any financial gain, are
> > >> nevertheless
> > >> perceived as gaining something from distributing their
> > >> hatred-endorsing
> > >> message. They are perceived by the majority as acting out of
> > >> self-interest
> > >> and
> > >> misplaced confidence in a primitive belief system.
> > >>
> > >> Finally, I think something should be said about how Neo-Fascist
> > >> parties
> > >> have been allowed to creep in at the corners of the political arena
> > in
> > >> recent years.
> > >> After the war, Nazi ideology was not something you admitted to
> > >> holding,
> > >> but nevertheless, isolated groups of individuals remained loyal to
> > >> Hitler's
> > >> beliefs. A natural progression occurred throughout the post-war
> > years
> > >> as
> > >> through communication of ideas, Nazism made the transition from an
> > >> Anomic
> > >> minority, a loose collection of individuals with no structure or
> > >> commitment, to a Nomic minority. An organised, structured group
> > with
> > >> internal
> > >> norms and
> > >> a strong commitment. The Nazi's capitalised on the growing level of
> > >> immigration and the economic recession and blamed the latter on the
> > >> former.
> > >> People's
> > >> ignorance of the global economic situation and other external
> > reasons
> > >> for
> > >> the rising level of unemployment and the upward march of inflation,
> > >> allowed the
> > >> Nazi's to get a 'foot in the door' with their "phoney patriotic
> > >> jargon"
> > >> as their own leader put it. Although, thankfully, the media (doing
> > >> something good for
> > >> a change) alerted many of us to the presence of Fascist ideals in
> > our
> > >> midst, for a moment the climate was just right for a Fascist
> > revival.
> > >> Hopefully, the
> > >> Zietgiest, the overall direction of social norms, has reversed, and
> > we
> > >> can continue to work towards a hate-free society.
> > >>
> > >> I still believe many of you on the list have a lot of catching up
> > to
> > >> do
> > >> regarding the current resurgance of the Neo-nazis and Fascist
> > ideals
> > >> amongst todays society, and hope that we can build a strong,
> > >> meaningful and
> > >> hopefully effective discussion on this most essential of lists.
> > Come
> > >> on CTRL,
> > >> pull your socks up!!!
> > >>
> > >> Richard B.
> > >>
> > >> flw wrote:
> > >> > -Caveat Lector-
> > >> >
> > >> >--
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> What is interesting is that European Fascists also
> > >> >claimed "victimhood".
> > >> >>> Derogation of Individual Freedom in the name of
> > >> >Victimhood is a time honored
> > >> >>> Fascist Rite.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> "Fascism ends in concentration camps, it does not begin
> > >> >with them".
> > >> >>> flw
> > >> >>> >>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> A friend of mine said the exact same thing to me today.
> > >> >He said that the only
> > >> >>> difference between the US today and Nazi Germany is that
> > >> >they got to wear
> > >> >>> "really cool uniforms" and we don't. The Fourth Reich is
> > >> >alive and well in
> > >> >>> the good old US of A.
> > >> >>> Teo1000
> > >> >>
> > >> >>This is only true for some minorities and political views.
> > >> >Otherwise,
> > >> >>the above statements are way exaggerated as far as most
> > >> >Americans are concerned.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>J2
> > >> >
> > >> >Hmm. Many Germans thought the same thing in the early
> > >> >1930's.
> > >> >flw
> > >> >
> > >> >DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> > >> >==========
> > >> >CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
> > >> propagandic
> > >> >screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing! These are
> > sordid
> > >> matters
> > >> >and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections
> > and
> > >> outright
> > >> >frauds is used politically by different groups with major and
> > minor
> > >> effects
> > >> >spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being
> > said,
> > >> CTRL
> > >> >gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests
> > to
> > >> readers;
> > >> >be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust
> > denial
> > >> and
> > >> >nazi's need not apply.
> > >> >
> > >> >Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> > >>
> > >=====================================================================
> > >> ===
> > >> >Archives Available at:
> > >> >http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
> > >> >
> > >> >http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> > >>
> > >=====================================================================
> > >> ===
> > >> >To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> > >> >SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> > >> >Om
> > >> >
> > >> >RFC822 header
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> > >> >From: flw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >> >Subject: Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward "New Order"
> > >> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> > >> ==========
> > >> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
> > >> propagandic
> > >> screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing! These are
> > sordid
> > >> matters
> > >> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections
> > and
> > >> outright
> > >> frauds is used politically by different groups with major and
> > minor
> > >> effects
> > >> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being
> > said,
> > >> CTRL
> > >> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests
> > to
> > >> readers;
> > >> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust
> > denial
> > >> and
> > >> nazi's need not apply.
> > >>
> > >> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> > >>
> > ======================================================================
> > >> ==
> > >> Archives Available at:
> > >> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
> > >>
> > >> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> > >>
> > ======================================================================
> > >> ==
> > >> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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> > >>
> > >> Om
> > >
> > >DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> > >==========
> > >CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
> > propagandic
> > >screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing! These are sordid
> > matters
> > >and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
> > outright
> > >frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor
> > effects
> > >spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said,
> > CTRL
> > >gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
> > readers;
> > >be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial
> > and
> > >nazi's need not apply.
> > >
> > >Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> > >=====================================================================
> > ===
> > >Archives Available at:
> > >http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
> > >
> > >http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> > >=====================================================================
> > ===
> > >To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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> > >Om
> > >
> > >RFC822 header
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> > >Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Sender: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >From: MARK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Subject: Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order
> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> >
> > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> > ==========
> > CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
> > propagandic
> > screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing! These are sordid
> > matters
> > and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
> > outright
> > frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor
> > effects
> > spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said,
> > CTRL
> > gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
> > readers;
> > be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial
> > and
> > nazi's need not apply.
> >
> > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> > ======================================================================
> > ==
> > Archives Available at:
> > http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
> >
> > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> > ======================================================================
> > ==
> > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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> > Om
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==========
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
> propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing! These are sordid
> matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
> outright
> frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor
> effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
> readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> ========================================================================
> Archives Available at:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> ========================================================================
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Om
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==========
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
========================================================================
Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
========================================================================
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Om
