Me 3 (ggg)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nurev Ind Research" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!
> Gavin Phillips wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 4/19/00 9:32:30 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >
> > << Gavin Phillips wrote:
> > >
> > > Many excellent quotations. Darwinian evolution has been repeatedly
> > discredited by several good books documenting the litany of missing
chains
> > (not links).
> > >
> > > It is the holy grail of mainstream science to think that they are
able to
> > explain the genesis of humankind. Evolution doesn't come close, but they
will
> > desperately cling to it untill they can conjure up another theory which
> > allows them to explain everything scientifically.
> > >
> > > Darwiniian macro-evolution is a religion. It has never been observed
or
> > repeated in a laboratory. Total nonsense. Gavin.
> > =======================
> >
> > This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen you write.
> > I won't even bother to respond to such an absurdity,
> > because to do so might lead some half baked idiot to
> > think that there are two sides to this argument, when
> > there is no argument at all.
> >
> > Whatever happened to your mind?
> >
> > Joshua2
> > >>
> >
> > Poor Joshua, have you already forgotten our little set-to a few months
ago
> > about disarming Americans, and trailed into a debate about Darwinian
> > evolution. You are as ignorant now as you were then. There are two sides
to
> > this argument. One side is losing very badly. The Darwinian theory of
> > macro-evolution is down and out-period.
> >
> > Phillip Johnson, author of many books on this subject replied to my
email
> > informing me that he has won every debate that he has had so far, many
of
> > them with University professors. Guess how he wins every time? Because
> > Darwinian macro-evolution is complete and utter, unadulterated 100%
BULLSHIT.
> >
> > Below is a partial reminder of our little t�te-�-t�te a few months ago.
> >
> > Gavin;
> > I do not practice any type of religion. I do not beleive in the bible
> > chapter and verse, the earth was made in 6 days etc. I know through
reading
> > several books on evolution that it is complete nonsense with only a few
bones
> > as "proof" that it happened.
> >
> > >Joshua;
> > > This is entirely wrong. This is the pathetic defense of
supernaturalists.
> > > Evolution is is a daily observable process. Also, you need to get
yourself
> > > updated on the " Bones " issue. There are MANY almost complete fossil
> > > records to demonstrate the evolutionary process. I suggest you read "
The
> > Beak
> > > of the Finch " for a clear and recent demonstration of evolution at
work.
> > >
> > >
> > >Gavin;
> > >
> > >You are completely wrong and really should do far more research into
the
> > glaring loopholes in your hypothesis before making an ass of yourself.
> > >
> > >There are obviously 100's of bones and skeletons of animals from
millions of
> > >years ago. What evolutionists do not have, and they admit this, is the
1000's
> > >of transitional bones when one species changes into another species. As
> > >Phillip Johnson says in the article I have posted;
> > >
> > >"The most important is the fossil problem, because this is a direct
record
> > of >the history of life on earth. If Darwinism were true, you would
expect the
> > >fossil evidence to contain many examples of Darwinian evolution. You
would
> > >expect to see fossils that really couldn't be understood except as
> > >transitions between one kind of organism and another... "
>
> And this is exactly what they they have. Just last week was published a
> rediscovery of bones of a transition animal - fish to land walker, which
> was in some museum's drawer.
>
> The problem is not that there aren't any transitional species, the problem
> is studying and choosing from what has already been gathered.
>
> J2
>
> > >"In reality, the fossil record is something that Darwinists have had to
> > >explain away, because what it shows is the sudden appearance of
organisms
> > >that exhibit no trace of step-by-step development from earlier
forms....In
> > >short, if evolution is the gradual, step-by-step transformation of one
kind
> > >of thing into another, the outstanding feature of the fossil record is
the
> > >absence of evidence for evolution."
> > >
> > >
> > >To try and get around this problem some evolutionists have proposed
other
> > >theories which are just as ridiculous as gradualistic evolution.
Richard
> > >Goldsmidt proposed the theory of "hopeful monsters" where one day a
reptile
> > >would lay an egg and out popped a bird. Trouble is he would need
another
> > >totally improbable event, another hopefull monster being hatched at the
> > same >time in the same area in order for them to breed. The other
problem is
> > that
> > >there should be thousands of hopeless monsters littering the fossil
record.
> > >There are none.
> > >
> > >Harvard University's Stephen Jay Gould proposed punctuated equilibrium.
> > Gould >postulated that perhaps species remain in stasis (the same) for
> > millions of
> > >years. Then only a few isolated breeding groups change into different
> > >species. As Milton says;;
> > >
> > >"The difficulty with punctuated equilibrium is that it is wholly
speculative
> > >and has been introduced simply to account for the lack of fossils that
> > ought >exist in the neo-Darwinist theory."
> > >
> > >Once again, there is no concrete proof for either hypothesis.
>
> Yes there is. In sedement research. You can see it for plants as well as
> small sea creatures. Long unbroken records.
>
> This is not worth arguing about. - J2
>
> > >
> > >
> > Not only books by Christian scientists, but books by scientists such as
> > >Michael Denton's, Evolution : A Theory in Crisis and the recent
Darwin's
> > Black
> > Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution by Michael J. Behe Assoc.
Prof.
> > of Biochemistry at Lehigh University in Pennsylvania in which Behe
mounts
> > an insurmountable challenge to gradualistic evolution with his
irreducibly
> > > > complex molecular machines (tens of thousands in nature)which are
so
> > complicated (thousands of trillions against)it is impossible for
Darwnian
> > gradualistic evolution to ecompass it. Also Darwin on Trial by Philip
Johnson
> > and The Bone
> > Peddlars by Fry are also good critiques of Darwinian evolution.
> > >
> > Joshua;
> > > Lets clarify a few things here. These are refutations of Darwin's
> > > theory as written down over a century ago. Darwin believed that
evolution
> > was
> > > gradualistic.
> >
> > Many other evolutionists were not gradualists. They, however, were swept
under
> > > the rug because their theories of a catastrophic evolutionary process
> > seemed to
> > > agree with the Bible's themes of catastrophism. So the scientists who
did
> > see
> > > themselves as the standard for truth, poo pooed anything that
resembled or
> > > buttressed religion. They were wrong. It turns out that evolution is
> > generally
> > > a steady state of being punctuated by sudden and catastrophic changes
> > > in the environment where some species or individuals survive the
changes and
> > > others do not. There is an EXTENSIVE fossil record for MANY species
going
> > > back hundreds of millions of years.
> > >
> > > So you may have these people able to prove that gradualism in
evolution is
> > > crap, because it is, but it's downright stupid to claim that evolution
isn't
> > > real.
> > >
> > >
> > >Gavin;
> > >
> > >They are both wrong. For your information there are many evolutionists,
> > >including zoologist Stephen Dawkins who still adhere to gradualstic
> > Darwinian evolution. As I said before, there is no substantial evidence
to
> > prove
> > >punctuated equilibrium, that is why many evolutionists do not advocate
it.
> > >Both gradualistic evolution and punctuated equilibrium are unprovable
> > >hypothesis regarding one species completely changing into another
species.
> >
> > I have already defined the fossil problem. Here is more from Johnson;
> >
> > >"how do you know it's true if it isn't recorded in the fossils? Where
is the
> > >proof? It's not in genetics. And it's not in the molecular evidence,
which
> > >shows similarities between organisms but doesn't tell you how those
> > >similarities came about. So the proof isn't anywhere..."
> > >
> >
> > > > If you had read anything on the subject you would know that there is
no
> > > > unequivocal proof that we evolved from apes or that reptiles turn
into
> > birds
> > > > etc. One christian scientist named Dr. Duane Guish debated
ecolutionary
> > biologists, anthropologists and other scientitsts at university's and he
kept
> > winning.
> > >
> >
> > Joshua;
> >
> > > Winning what? The debate? I don't believe you.
> > >
> > >
> > >Gavin;
> > >
> > >I don't care what you believe. You have already displayed your total
> > >ignorance on this subject. If you had done your homework you would be
aware
> > >of the mountain of problems macroevolution has and the major problems
> > >evolutionists have in trying to prove it. Phillip Johnson, Duane Gish
and
> > >others have had many successes in debates with evolutionists because of
the
> > >many large credibility and logic gaps inherant in macroevolution, some
of
> > >which I have referenced.
> > >
> > > So now they refuse to debate him. There attitude to open intellectual
debate
> > > > is to quit when your pet theory is repeatedly shown to be lacking
the
> > > > neccessary proof to convince people it is correct. The little
evidence
> > that does exist (Lucy) 9 some bones) that may point to a possible
> > evolutionary link is highly subjective and is argued for and against by
> > scientists
> > who"believe" in evolution.
> > >
> >
> > Joshua;
> > > They are not arguing about evolution. They are arguing about lineage
> > > which is certainly subject to debate.
> > >
> > >
> > >Gavin;
> > >
> > >They are arguing about the total lack of evidence for macroevolution.
> > >
> > > Evolution appeals to mainstream scientists and people like you with
> > mighty ego's who desperately want to be able to explain everything. Man
is
> > the
> > > > pinnacle, right Nurev. We are so brilliant we can explain all of
nature
> > by the simple means of, enough time and anythings possible, and natural
> > > > selection. You are not only extremely arrogant, but you also do not
know
> > >that your religion, evolution, is a long long way from established
fact. Poor
> > > > Nurev. He thought his religion was fact.
> > >
> >
> > Joshua;
> > > Pathetic dweeb. You don't know enough to poo poo evolution. And as a
> > > matter of fact, what you are describing is Humanism. You're getting
all
> > your "
> > > isms "confused in your desperate and pathetic attempt to justify your
> > > superstitious beliefs.
> > >
> > >Gavin;
> > >
> > >I know far more than you. It is not just only myself who knows
Darwinism is
> > a religion. As Phillip Johnson says;
> > >
> > >..Darwinism is fundamentally a religious position, not a scientific
> > position.
> > >
> > >...It is religion in the name of science, and that means that it is
> > >misleading people about both religion and science.
> > >
> > >
> > >Joshua;
> > > I think that people who believe in supernatural beings without a
> > > single shred of evidence to back up that belief, suffer from an
obvious
> > mental
> > > disorder and therefore should be prohibited from owning firearms. And
> > shoelaces
> > > too.
> > >
> > >Gavin;
> > >
> > >I think people who say that their religion is fact are totally bonkers
,
> > and should immediately visit the proctologist in order to remove their
head
> > form their ass.
> > >
> > >Anyone who is interested should read Johnsons review of Michael Behe's
> > book, ( I posted an edited version)Darwins Black Box. Evolutionists such
as
> > Dawkins
> > >are completely out of there league when trying to show how massively
> > complex
> > >organs came about in a step by step process. As Johnson says;
> > >
> > >"What molecular biology has to say is determined not by what the
biologists
> > >say to a popular audience, however, or even to each other in
conversation,
> > >but by what they publish in the leading scientific journals. Behe
reports
> > >that what they do not ever publish in those journals is detailed
scenarios
> > of how even a single complex molecular system could have evolved by a
> > Darwinian process."
> > >
> > >Puntuated equilibrium and Darwinism are both dead as a theory of life
on
> > this planet. As for the genesis of life, one prominant
evolutionist(later
> > >abdicated)Fred Hoyle, said the chances of even the simplest bacteria
(still
> > >more complex than a stealth fighter)forming from some primevel soup
> > billions of years ago was "about as likely as assembling a Boeing 747 by
> > sending a
> > >whirling tornado into a junkyard."
>
> Wow. I really enjoyed that.
> J2
>
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and 'conspiracy theory'�with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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