-Caveat Lector-
>I agree. But since we have institutionalized a system where Govt usurps
citizens funds to pay for so called public education... a voucher system
is an improvement over the failed system now in place.
(1.) The system now in place is flawed, but it certainly has not failed.
Before public education, literacy was limited to a handful, all rich or
in the employ of the church. That was failure.
(2.) Stating repeatedly that �a voucher system is an improvement over
the failed system now in place� proves neither that a voucher system is
an improvement nor that the system now in place has failed. It does not
prove, but does strongly suggest, that you can�t prove either of these
things. If you could prove them, you would most likely do so and not
repeat yourself. That�s not how debate works. That�s how six year olds
fight.
>Education is not a "right." Every parent has a duty to educate his/her
offspring. Govt should not steal people's money to force them to pay
for other's parental responsibilities.
That�s where you�re wrong. Every human being is born with the moral
responsibility to care for, nurture, protect and educate every other
human being who needs it. When you withhold what it is your moral duty
to give, it is you who are stealing from the rest of us.
>How the hell would you have any idea about my background. Making such
an assumption proves you are a shallow thinker.
I�m a sociologist, an anthropologist, a psychologist, and old. I�ve been
around a long time. I�ve met a LOT of people. I�m a GOOD judge of
character. In my expert opinion, you don�t talk like a poor person or
like somebody you cares about others, especially about poor people.
You�re either a selfish, self centered, greedy, irresponsible jerk or
else you�re a world class fraud. Which is it?
>Selfeshness is a human survival trait that has evolved over millions of
years of evolution.
That�s where you�re wrong again. If you want people to even suspect, let
alone believe, that you are conversant with the evolution of, or
anything else about, selfishness, I strongly suggest that you first
learn to spell the damn word.
I�d rebut your point further myself, but Kropotkin does a better job of
it. Read him:
http://www.spunk.org/library/writers/kropotki/sp001503/
>It is no more a "disease" then anger, lust, hunger or sadness.
You�re talking apples and oranges here. Anger, lust, hunger or sadness
are emotions. Selfishness is behavior.
>Now you are starting to "get it." I agree that is is "intolerable" to
"take" your money "by threat of force" whether it is given to
religious schools or Govt Schools.
Wrong again. It is our moral duty to educate all. It�s also the smart
thing to do, in that it benefits everyone. What is intolerable is that
money be taken from me by force and used to promote a religion not my
own. This is something upon which people of all religions can agree.
>It is gross elitism to equate low income with dysfunctionality.
I didn�t say it was. Don�t put words into my mouth. It�s rude. It�s
dishonest.
Poverty doesn�t make you more likely to be dysfunctional. It does,
however, make it more difficult for you to educate your kids properly.
For one thing, it makes it more likely that you yourself are uneducated.
For another thing, home education tools cost money. If you�re having
trouble making the rent, you certainly don�t have the money for an
encyclopedia, a computer, or tutors.
>I never suggested we turn to "corporate schools" to fix anything.
Are you suggesting that there are private schools which are not
incorporated? List ten. Give their addresses.
>Anyone who does not realize that our current Govt School System is a
creature of the Corporate State is either naive, ignorant or deluded.
It is in part a �creature of the Corporate State� and in part it is a
product of the public�s just and cogent demand for education for all.
>>>>>>Which ones? Be specific or we may justifiably assume that you are
making it up.
> I am not going to reinvent the wheel.
That�s an extremely lame excuse for not doing your homework.
>These are basic facts well known to anyone who does even a cursory
review.
Perhaps. Perhaps not. Either way, your refusal to cite sources
discredits both your contention and your scholarship. Anywhere, but
especially on the internet, the lack of citation makes anything that
anybody says suspect.
>Try and understand this. If there is a finite amount of public funds
available for public schools and a substantial proportion of kids leave
Govt Schools to attend private schools at less per pupil cost.....then
there is more money available for those who remain in Govt Schools.
Wrong. Try to understand this: The amount of funds made available to any
individual public school is determined on the basis of how many kids
are enrolled there. They fewer kids that go to an individual school, the
less money it is allocated to that individual school. All schools are
individual schools. Everytime a kid leaves, for any reason, the school
gets less money.
Why are you having so much trouble with this simple concept?
> In 1998 Wash. DC spent $10,000 per pupil. The amount is similar in
most major urban areas. NYC spends about $9000.
Says who? Cite your sources or don�t expect to be believed, even if you
are telling the truth. This is the internet, homeland of unsubstantiated
allegations. Why should we believe you if you can�t cite a source?
>"Govt Schools" are non private schools. Schools supported by taxpayer
funds.
Does this mean that if the voucher program goes through, and taxpayer
money goes to �private� schools, that then they too will be �government
schools�? If not, explain why not.
>I am not speaking to "taxes." I am speaking to costs per student.
Costs per student is irrelevant. It�s worth any amount it costs.
Whatever it costs it�s less than the cost to society of not educating
everybody as much as humanly possible.
>Again you make no sense. Under a voucher system, no money is
"withdrawn" from public schools on a net /net basis. Less kids with more
money proportionately allocated means more money in the aggregate.
That�s not what going to happen. I�ll repeat:
The amount of funds made available to any individual public school is
determined on the basis of how many kids are enrolled there. They fewer
kids that go to an individual school, the less money it is allocated to
that school. Why is this so difficult for you to comprehend? What�s the
problem here?
>>>>Are you also factoring in the cost to the taxpayers of warehousing
people in prison when they turn to crime because they didn�t get a good
enough education to make a decent honest living.
>More irrationality. One reason there are so many millions doing time is
because of the failure of Govt Schools - not because of some yet to be
devised voucher plan.
Again with the apples and oranges. You�re talking about the present. I�m
talking about the future. In the present, yes, you are correct. One
reason there are so many millions doing time is indeed, because of the
failure of Govt Schools. However, it�s a very, very minor reason. The
main reason so many people are in prison is Prohibition. End the War On
(Some) Drugs and most of our law enforcement problems will evaporate
immediately. The second major reason for imprisonment is that we live in
a classist society, where exploitation is the cultural norm and all of
the corporate media engage in daily psy-war aimed at making people value
inanimate objects more than other people and making them want things
they can�t afford.
This is a pathological society. It�s pathology is induced by the
propaganda machine of the corporate-government complex. It lies. NOTHING
is more important than other people. We NEED each other. No one is smart
enough to make it through life with only one brain. Even a hermit,
living alone in the woods, does so with knowledge that was accumulated
by countless people over numberless generations.
No matter what you want or need, you get it from other people. Want
bread? Go to a baker. Want flour? Go to a miller. Want wheat? Go to a
farmer. Etc., etc.
It behooves us to care for one another. It also behooves us to deal
harshly with those who refuse to do so.
>Don't encourage Alphabet Anarchists!
>Ever hear of Jill Johnson? Years ago she used to write for the Village
Voice....was considered a "rising star" in the NYC literary scene.
>She apparently disappeared. People could not tolerate her annoying
writing style of refusing to use caps and other basic punctuation.
You yourself habitually use ungrammatical capitalizations. Be
consistent. If it�s OK to take liberties with the rules on
capitalization by capitalizing where it is not called for, then it is
also OK to to take liberties with the rules on capitalization by not
capitalizing where it is called for. What�s good for the goose . . .
etc.
Besides, the notion that only the dialect of the ruling class is �good�
English is totally bogus. Good English is that which best communicates.
Period. End of story.
>>>For someone who claims to be educated, you certainly are making
asimplistic analysis. What�s the matter, didn't anybody ever teach you
how to think things through?
> I let this comment speak for itself.
It does so adequately. Even more telling, though, is your answer.
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