-Caveat Lector-
flw wrote:
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> > Where do you people get the audacity to point fingers at ANYBODY while
> > supporting the PLO and Yassir Arafat. What astonishing hypocrisy. Even from
> > Liberals.
> >
> > Joshua2
>
> It is not a matter of "supporting" the PLO and Arafat.
> The reality is that the West Bank / Gaza situation is essentially
> one of Neo European Colonialism.
That's one interpretation. And it's an arguable one. The Israelis are
not European any more than you are. They are Israelis. And the West Bank,
and Gaza are territories that were lost to Israel in a war with Arab Palestine
A.K.A. Jordan, who was warned not to attack Israel during the Six Day War.
They are not " occupied " by Israel. They are occupied by a conquered enemy
population. Losers can't be choosers.
How come no one is asking the USA to return Texas, Colorado, Arizona, New
Mexico, and California to Mexico??? And, the rest of the country to the
Indians? How come you are not?
>
> Since WWII there have been countless "wars of National Liberation."
>
> These wars of national liberation are very brutal wars where terrorism is the
> most effective and common weapon - for both sides. Terrorist bombings
> by insurgents; airplane bombings by the superior military side. Torture
> is "de rigueur" by those seeking to oppress the insurgents.
>
> Algeria, Kenya, Viet Nam, Rhodesia, South Africa come readily to mind.
> Of course Israel itself was birthed through terrorism.
This is all true. Your points are well made. But there is one main difference
where Israel is concerned. The Jewish refugees who remained alive after WWII
had no where to go since no country would take them in even after what
happened. So they went to Palestine and won it over by terror and war. They
had nothing to lose.
This is NOT THE SAME AS COLONIZATION FOR PROFIT! This was a matter of
survival where the Palestinians paid for the sins of Christian Europe. I
personally think the Germany should have been given to the surviving Jews.
Then the Germans would be dealing with the aftermath of dispossession. That
would have been justice.
That was in the first half of the last century. There is no more Palestine.
There is Israel and Jordan. Like it or not. I think that if the Palestinians
don't like living under the Israelis, AND they can't defeat them in order
to change their situation, they should move to Germany.
>
> Few observers "supported" the terrorist tactics of the insurgents or the
> status quo. As J2 points out - such is the reality of brutual conflicts -
> and the side with the highest pain tolerance usually prevails.
> Generally those with less to lose and the higher birth rate will
> win.
This is a wrong analysis. The side with the greatest power will win. Either
the power of numbers as in S. Africa, or the power of military strength.
>
> Will the Palestinians outsuffer the Israelis?
You bet they will. But that won't get them Palestine back.
> As the Israelis assume
> a traditional European / American standard of living with all that
> entails such as glorifying a lifestyle that abhors inconvenience and
> demands instant gratification (much like the traditional colonialists living
> in their colonialist bubble) they paradoxically become weaker. For
> example it is now common for young Israelis to dodge the draft which
> was almost unheard of in the past.
This was true up to a point. That point has been passed. Your example was
what drove Labor and Liberals and the Israeli Left into the Oslo Accords.
They got tired and lazy and weary of constant war. They really wanted peace
with the Palestinians enough to delude themselves into thinking that the
Palestinians wanted peace too. But the Palestinians don't want peace. They
wasn't Israel to disappear and return to Old Palestine.
That won't happen. And the Palestinians and all the Arab world can't make
it happen. So they didn't take the best offer they would ever get. When the
bourgie Israelis saw that, it hit home. They reverted to the survival
mentality and elected the man who was most likely to deal with the enemy
as an enemy. Sharon.
>
> The more squalid the Palestinian's conditions become - the stronger they
> become in terms of this conflict.
This is a ridiculous statement. The Palestinians are losing all around.
They are even losing in world opinion which is swinging against them. They
have demonstrated their true intent.
>
> Perhaps the closest to the Palestinian / Israeli situation is South Africa.
Not even the same ball game. This is a forced and contrived comparison
designed to appeal to Liberals.
>
> It is clear that Israel's long term plan is an Apartheid State. Only an
> Israeli Apartheid State could possibly survive demographic reality
> assuming Israel insists on remaining a Theocratic "ethnically pure"
> political entity.
Israel intends to remain Jewish. That's the point of it's existence. If someone
doesn't like it, too bad.
J2
>
> Clearly just as in South Africa, Apartheid is a losing game.
> flw
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