-Caveat Lector- If you want to abandon current usage of language, it makes it hard to have discussions on meaning.
on 7/10/02 2:44 AM, InfoWarz at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > At 01:57 AM 7/10/02 , you wrote: >> -Caveat Lector- >> >> on 7/10/02 12:57 AM, InfoWarz at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> >>> -Caveat Lector- >>> >>>> Being well versed in the fundamentals is NOT the same as hold a rigid belief >> system where all the answers are already known and there is nothing new to >> learn, and seek out something new is considered heresy. > > Being well versed in the fundamentals is the VERY definition of > fundamentalism. > > No. Fundamentalism is the belief system that your beliefs are the only possible beliefs, without room for modification. If this is not your definition, we are not actually having the same conversation. It has everything to do with BELIEF and nothing to do with knowledge in this context. It is possible to be well versed in the fundamentals of a belief, and still not accept the belief as complete, true, or immutable. >> Furthermore - a mechanic is not the same job as a scientist, and thus have a >> very criteria and standards of action. >> Mechanics operate on things scientists have already created / proven. >> A scientists job is to seek deeper understands and new ways to view things. >> Not the same job. Not the same criteria for success. > > Still doesn't change the meaning of fundamentalism. Nope. But it does mean anything you say about a mechanic or technician or religious entity, that does not apply to real science. There are plenty of fundamentalists in science-ism - but they are not really good scientists. Maybe the distinction is too subtle for some. > >> Scientists are not technicians. >> >> Its that same confusion between knowledge and belief again. There is no >> fundamentalism when it comes to knowledge. Facts are. No need to be >> fundamental or progressive or liberal with knowledge. > > Balony. It is fundamental knowledge that a helium ballon rises in an earth > type atmosphere. Facts are fundamental. Yes. But BELIEF is not. That�s the whole point here. Facts are facts. Truth remains true, despite belief systems. > >> You can only be a fundamentalist in the realm of belief. > > Balony. I gave previous examples. If a mechanic doesn't know the > fundamentals of his trade, he's a lousy mechanic. It doesn't matter what he > believes. > Mechanical knowledge is not a belief system Religions are. Not the same thing, but you keep trying to equate them. Again, knowing the fundamental in knowledge, is not the same as only accepting a literal translation in a religion, which is the definition of fundamentalism in a BELIEF system. >>> >>>> That said - I would hazard a guess the these A.D.S.Fs are responsible for a >>>> lot less bloodshed, repression, and general world malaise, than a few of >>>> the >>>> theist ones I could name. >>> >>> Yeah, like those great theists Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, Mugabe, Mandela, and >>> Hitler. >> >> Hitler had a belief in a deity. Mandela has a belief in a deity ( there are >> many quotes from him on the importance of religion , personally and in a >> culture) . I'm pretty sure Mugabe too, but I have to check to make sure. (I >> know he was a radical Marxist for a while, but I seem to recall something >> about him calling himself a committed Christian later on, but again - I have >> to look into it) > > Everyone has a belief in a diety. Either the true God. False Gods. Or > themselves(atheists). Bullshit. I have no belief in a theist interpretation. I do not place myself in the role of deity. If I did I would not be a non-theist or an a-theist, I would be a self- theist. Not the same, not even if you proclaim it to be so. > > A Christian beleives in the fundamental principles in the bible. If he > doesn't, he's not a Christian is he? Their is no such thing as a > non-fundamental Christian. You either are one or you're not. Wrong. Simply Wrong. You can be a Christian and not accept the literal interpretation of the bible. There are many stripes of Christians - some who accept the pure divinity of Christ, some who think Christ was a man, some who think Christ was somewhere between the 2. There are Christians who think the bible is metaphor, but still follow the basic philosophical tenets. There are Catholics, with one interpretation of the bible, and snake handlers who accept a different one. Only Christians who believe that the Bible is 100% true, complete, and divine, can be called fundamentalist Christians. I assure you there are many Christians who think that there was no garden of Eden. > > Just like a mechanic that doesn't know the fundamentals isn't really a > mechanic, except maybe he likes to be called one. Why don't you take your > car to him and when he's finished trashing your car, you can write me about > the definition of fundamentalism. > :) Belief not knowledge. If we had some proof of the exact nature of "god" and the workings of the universe will there be "knowledge" to KNOW the fundamentals of the way a mechanic knows the concrete physical workings of a car. Then all religion would be fundamentalist in the way you say the mechanic is. > > <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org</A> > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > ========== > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance?not soap-boxing?please! These are > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'?with its many half-truths, mis- > directions and outright frauds?is used politically by different groups with > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > ======================================================================== > Archives Available at: > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html > <A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of > [EMAIL PROTECTED]</A> > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > <A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl</A> > ======================================================================== > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Om -- "He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder." -- Albert Einstein <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org</A> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance�not soap-boxing�please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'�with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds�is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html <A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]</A> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ <A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl</A> ======================================================================== To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
