-Caveat Lector- on 9/23/02 2:34 PM, flw at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> -Caveat Lector- > >> how do you deal with households that are not exactly >> civilian in this situation? A hypothetical extremist who plants a car > bomb, >> or has a bomb factory to send kids out to blow up civilians - who is not > in >> any "officially recognized" army, and lives with his family in the same >> building he makes his bombs, or whatever? He is a civilian - officially. > > That is the age old problem of colonialists and occupiers. Seems like > I heard similiar questions when I was in Viet Nam. That is why the South > African Apartheid government locked up Nelson Mandella for 20 years. It is a problem. I just don't know what the answer is. > >> This is a common misconception. One I have talked about here before. The >> word "Jewish" has 2 meanings - the 1st designates a religion the way > "Hindu" >> or "catholic" does. The second in a tribal / ethnic label, like "Italian" >> "French" and "Mexican." > > What is the point? That American Jews, Italian Jews need 2 countries? > I thought the 'homeland' for American Jews is America? Look - personally - I consider myself American ( actually a new Yorker, which isn't the same - post 9/11 propaganda notwithstanding) and that is enough for me. Not Italian Jews in one place American Jews in another, but a place where people of Jewish ethnicity have self rule. It is exactly what the Palestinians want now. The parallels are quite close - Its not like Palestinians were ever separate from the rest of the Arab world, except by European colonial mapmaking. So I could ask why does there need to be a Palestinian Islamic Arab homeland, why don't they just accept living in some other place as "Syrian Palestinians?" It makes as much sense. > >> The '67 war was not started by the Israelis. One should never gamble > more >> than they can stand to lose. The regional Arab states bet they could > destroy >> Israel. They lost. > > Who started the war is questionable. Pre emptive strikes by Israel > seems to indicate they started the war. I believe the first strike was > against the Syrian and Egyptian Air Force by Israel. > It was a fine line indeed - Egyptian and Syrian troops were massed at the borders and poised to strike. Whether Israel fired that shot or not the war would have begun at the same moment in time. >> The stupid Israelis, instead of kicking the Muslims out of the > territories >> they captured, in the manner Jews were kicked out of so many Islamic >> countries, they said stay, lets try to build a state together. The same >> Muslims who didn't allow Jews to enter the old city of Jerusalem, were > told >> they could share in Jerusalem. Those same Muslims are now blowing up > school >> buses. > > Ah yes, good old fashioned 'ethnic cleansing' - too bad the 'stupid > Israelis' > did not 'cleanse' the area of a few million Palestinians. Of course the > reality is that many in Israel (including Sharon) certainly wanted to do > this > but the Cold War was in full bloom and the US (and the Soviet Union) > forbade it. I was being facetious when I said they were stupid. The point is that at that moment the Israeli's chose to be softer rather than hard line. Right choice, but it lead to this state of perpetual war. The less moral choice might have been a better political choice. As I ask in the paragraph, if things had gone the other way, I am sure the regional Arabs would have chosen differently. > >> Do you think if the Israeli's had lost that war, there would have been a > Jew >> left alive there? Do you think they would have been invited to stay? > > The hatred egendered by the establishment of an essentially European > colony in the heart of the Middle East and the resultant forcible removable > of huge numbers of natives certainly did not engender good will among > the Arabs. Regardless, what is done is done. Unfortunately the Israeli > right wing lunatics are in now charge of the Aslym. The bottom line is > that the Lukidniks and fanatical 'greater Israel' Zionists are in charge > and will never give up their ultimate goal of a greater ( i.e. 'Arab free') > Israel. Sharon does not want peace. The tragedy is that the US is a willing > partner in this ongoing genocide. The fact that a right wing US supports a right wing Israel is no surprise. If the Arabs had not boycotted the last election, and declared the last intafada, I think we would be much closer to peace today than we are now. That�s the hope and tragedy of democracy - people get the govt they ask for, the one they deserve......... > flw > > <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org</A> > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > ========== > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance�not soap-boxing�please! These are > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'�with its many half-truths, mis- > directions and outright frauds�is used politically by different groups with > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > ======================================================================== > Archives Available at: > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html > <A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of > [EMAIL PROTECTED]</A> > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > <A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl</A> > ======================================================================== > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Om -- ---------------------- -------------- ---- ------ -------------- Planet spins - so do I neo-sufi wisdom NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org</A> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance�not soap-boxing�please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'�with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds�is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html <A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]</A> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ <A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl</A> ======================================================================== To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
