On Mon, Nov 05, 2007 at 12:52:34PM +1000, Anthony Thyssen wrote:
> | > | Now this is truly EXCITING news. Would it be possible for you
> | > | to create a sh script to do what you've described? --Also,
> | > | what/where is the Gnome workspace utility (applet)? Code? a
> | > | script? how to remove? Maybe fork your work into a ctwm-gnome2
> | > | port?
> | > |
> | > It is basically how to run Gnome so it interacts reasonably well with
> | > CTwm. No CTwm code changes are involved. Though some specific setup
> | > is needed to make it work.
> |
> | Ick; I'm spent now, 8+ days fixing Gnome ... while learning how
> | its parts interact. The fewer setup thing that need to b fixed,
> | the better. Can you set things according to *your* default??
> |
> Pardon?
Sorry; I'm asking if whatever you have as your own defaults--
the setup you had below--might work best. I'm probably tring
to say that I would like to stick close to your configuration,
that's all.
>
> | > Features/Problems...
> | >
> | > * You can have a desktop background, or CTWM root menus, not both.
> | >
> | > I turn off the desktop using the gconftool command given.
> | > As such the root window is used for application icons, and NOT for
> | > application launchers. The traditional way, not the microsoft way.
> |
> | Super! [ may blesssing be upon you, &c. ]
> | >
> | > * You can not use the gnome icon manager, or gnome workspace manager
> | > Let CTwm do these things. Just remove those applets from the
> | > panels.
> |
> | I much prefer the ctwm workspace rectangle to gnome's/KDE'S.
> | What strings/menus/boxes do I use to remove "stuff"?
> |
> I just go to the panel, press the right menu button and 'remove from
> panel'.
Okay, thanks. I use the right-button-remove feature often.
I'm glad this works merging gnome+ctwm. :-)
[[ by the way, i can live very happily without icons of apps ]]
>
>
> | > * This does NOT stop you using nautilus for file sorting of movies,
> | > photos, openoffice docs. I prefer to use command line for just
> | > about everything else, except basic sorting/moving of these types of
> | > files.
> |
> | Same. I was going to ask why anybody would need a GUI tool to
> | cd from /usr/local/share/doc to /etc/X11 (say). Decided to save
> | my breath ... um, fingers.
> |
> It is nice, when the #$%^*&^%$ mime types are working to produce nice
> thumbnails. One Fedora 7 upgrade and I lost that capability!
>
> Haven't figured it out, and am thinking or installing ubuntu on my
> second root partition and using it for a while.
Hmm! A few months back I lost some icons from the top strip
[[ is it "Menu-Bar"? ]] so instead of starting kttsd from the
icon, now (on Ubuntu) I have to start up Another app and ask itto
start the kttsd window/dialog. Why this can't be command-line
based *plus* GUI, is beyond me!!
>
>
> WARNING: do not mix gnomes when swicthing OS's. I initialiaztion links
> in a different set of gnome 'dot' directories for different OS's. It is
> a pain to have to re-configure the panels each time but it is better
> than it not working because of incompatibilities between Linux OS's.
Thank you for the clue. (!)
>
> | > * You can not use gnome exit, unless your login session is hanging on
> | > the gnome exit. If you don't use gnome exit, you must kill the
> | > gconfd-2 process yourself, preferably when logging out. Sooner is
> | > better.
> |
> | Could this be done by script? say in /etc/rc.local you make sure
> | that ctwm is running completely, then exec a kill -9?
> |
> I have been using killprog gconfd-2
> But it does not kill it! I think the login scripts starts one for you
> which stuff up a 'not quite fully gnome' type session.
Over my head! I did OS devel and testing, but nothing as messy
and intricate as building a Desktop.
>
> | > I have my own session management script that will let me shutdown,
> | > reboot, logout, or even just kill all clients and restart session
> | > without logging out! It took me years of slowly evolving scripts
> | > to allow me to do this :-)
> |
> | Pleas see above!
>
> I use a ".xsession" script in my home which the system calls if present.
> That script sets up by Environment variables, then calls the appropriate
> ".xinitrc" script to control my login 'session'. For the clients
> that scritp calls ".xclient.$HOST" as needed to launch my window
> manager, xterms, monitors, and gnome.
>
> this method allows a complex loop in ".xinitrc" script to have a
> 'logout' button that pops up a requester to
> 'poweroff' 'reboot' 'restart' 'logout' 'cancel'
>
> The restart kills all x clients (except one to hold the display
> connection) and re-runs ".xclients.$HOST" to restart the session
> without logging out.
>
> As I said it is a complex scripted session management that I developed
> to suit my needs over... Hmmm.. 18 years!!!!!!
>
> Yes I worked with X10 and SunView systems of the late 1980s!
>
> | > * You must kill gconfd-2 when finished, it will not die just
> | > because you have terminated your X window session, or display. If
> | > one is still running when you start a new "gnome-session", most
> | > 'applets' will fail to lauch and gnome will be slow to finish its
> | > startup. I thought the culprit was gnome-wm, but it wasn't.
> | >
> | > Last problem to solve...
> | >
> | > * Determine when gnome has finished starting up, and is finished
> | > playing with your display settings. That way you can immediately
> | > restore the settings (backgrounds, keyboard xmodmaps, volume
> | > controls, etc, etc) that you want, rather that what it wants.
> | >
> |
> | Another thing: do KDE apps work with your tweaks? There are
> | several apps like "Sound_Juicer" and even konsole. And the KDE
> | text-to-speech tools. As well as the newest whiz-bang
> | Gnome2-2.20 gadgets.
> |
> Haven't useed much KDE clients. Mostly I want the panel and nautilus.
> Anything else I launch from the gnome menu.
>
> It should work reasonable well though.
>
>
> | Before, if I tried to exec some of these
> | tools, I got a ton of error messages n my xterm. Then something
> | or other usually broke. Nutshell: that's why I've been trying
> | to learn all this GUI nonsense...
> |
> | [[ your ctwm setup is saved away ]]
> |
> Both gnome and KDE are verbose. Far too verbose about things knowone
> but developers wants to know. that is whay I chuck the gnome session
> errors to a separate error log file.
This is what the gnome/kde folk should have done; else have a
flag to turn down the err-output ...
>
>
> | > | I've begun using both Gnome and KDE on my newer PC's, but
> | > | seriously like Ctwm because of its flexibility and simplicity.
> | > | Fr example, I can have 8 or ten workspaces with titles and
> | > | mouseclick to any of them to select out my chores: "System
> | > | Maint", "Mail", "Browsers", "Writing", "Programming", plus a
> | > | couple to monitor my network of five computers. And each time I
> | > | reboot, all my xterms (and apps) are in their proper
> | > | workspaces. Doing this with Gnome is still a mystery... .
> | > |
> | > Yes I know exactly what you mean. I hate gnome for this reason,
> | > but I like its menu laucher, application launchers, and applets.
> | >
> | Can you explain what a launcher does? I'm missing something
> | here.
> |
> They are applets you can define in the panel, or sub-menus of the panel
> to say launch some application. You can define your own.
>
> For example i added a launcher to run my "vampire" script
> which starts xterm on remote machines. I also have one for VMware
> Console, which Gnome does not knwo about normally.
>
> You can define the command to run, the icon to use and a number of other
> things.
Thanks.
I've mouse-clicked on the top bar and chose "Add" and saw the
"Launcher" or "Build you own Launcher" ... so am beginning to get
a clue. I'm guessing that these launchers boil down to
execl() or execv() calls. --I understand *code*; reading code
is sometimes vastly easier than reading and re-re-re-re ....
reading man pages ... . ....
>
> | > I specifically like the weather, power and network applets. That later
> | > has become essential for laptops, especially for roaming wireless
> | > network connections.
> |
> |
> | I'll check it out. I'm planning on going from my cat5 rats' net
> | to wireless ... eventually!!
> |
> It is very useful. and was the thing that switched me from just running
> a simple 'panel' (last year) to a full gnome session, with nautilus
> popups for USB's and DVD's
>
>
> | > Note xwit is your friend for starting, positioning, iconizing and
> | > setting a CTwm workspace for Gnome complient applications...
> | >
> | > For example her I use "xwin_find" to wait for a firefox window
> | > to appear, then I move and iconize it, and change its workspace
> | > to my "Delta" Workspace
> |
> | I just googled xwin_find. 7 hits:-). Looks useful. ---This is
> | an off-the-wall comment, but FWIW, Gnome has no command to make
> | its terminal (xterm rewrite taller [top <-> bottom] or wider
> | [side <-> side]. My FN keys to this. With Konsole or Term, you
> | can only make the xterm full-size.
> |
> xwin_find is my own script. A looped wrapper around xwininfo
> to wait for specific windows to appear and return the Xwin-ID
Outstanding! I have my own hacks and helper programs--anything
"serious" in C--that relies on the underlying utilities.
Given all of your work and sweat over the years, methinks it
really is time for a fork. Or at least a built/Makefile -DFLAG
that build your favor of ctwm-with-gnome.
>
> | > | One think that I dislike about Gnome/KDE is that they've silenced
> | > | them BEL ('\007') that sounds in vi/nvi/vim...
> | > |
> | > I can't help you there. But if you know how to turn on, you can switch
> | > it back on in the 'post gnome start' section.
> |
> |
> | I know zip about the sound/audio (or video) in the PeeCee world.
> | Only that with gnome or kde no bell.
> |
> :-(
>
>
> | > Acutally I found it annoying that I could not silent the bell using the
> | > volumn control. Do you know how control the 'beep' bell?
> | >
> |
> | Um, yeah, if you are using Konsole, you can turn the BEL off on
> | the application. With Gnome, there is a Sound Prefences
> | menu/widget/dialogue/<whatever>. You can have the screen flash
> | at you. Doesn't work that well.... I would ****__loVE__****
> | to have key-clicks --like Sun--. That drove my co-workers up
> | the wall before we had individual offices. But for me, the
> | "click" tells me if I have/ haven't actually hit a key. --I
> | began writing a click driver and was 75% finished whe my disk
> | crashd [Nov, '99]. Never got back to it.... it's on my
> | queue... but way low on the prio list.
>
> Key clicks can be turned on using "xset"
Tried that on both Ubuntu and FreeBSD. Zero sound. Not with
gnome, not with ctwm. (If "someday" ever comes, I'll rebuild the
driver keyclick code. Maybe 1:70Billion people will use it,
but at least it'll be there.)
>
> Gnome will turn it off, so you will need to turn it on again AFTER gnome
> has finished starting (if we can figure out when that is!)
I've asked the FreeBSD-Gnome wizard; he told me what I had
already done, and said: "Well, I don't know what else to tell
you." (*sigh*).
>
>
> | > MAIL ME, if you have anything to add, or further suggestions on the
> | > above. Not that anyone has helped me in the past. Suprise me.
> | >
In a year to 15 months I'll be thru with my thesis; then will
volunteer to be your tester if you do the cwtm-gnome fork.
I have 3, 4 years of test experience... .
Andd am certain to come up with things to add. BUT-
as you know- "adding `sthuff'" is how things grow to beyond
huge.
gary
> |
> | I've thought of things prev'ly... can't remember then now, but
> | willl write offlist in anything comes to mind. Sorry for the
> | delay, but problems ganged up on me fr the past week or so.
> | *Hopefully* mycomputer is stabilizing. If it reboots
> | spontaneousl just once more, I'm throwing it out. :-|
> |
> | later on,
> |
> Anthony Thyssen ( System Programmer ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "I have a top secret gravely important assignment here."
> "What other kind do I ever get?" -- Stainless Steel Rat (Revenge)
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Anthony's Home is his Castle http://www.cit.gu.edu.au/~anthony/
--
Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.thought.org Public Service Unix
http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org
