From: "Peter Sarony", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Oh dear! what a lot of old baloney has appeared in CS
postings regarding .308 versus 7.62, especially the
suggestions that 7.62 surplus ammo is not
suitable for use in Remington 700 rifles!
Another correspondent has correctly pointed out already
that the differences are merely in nomenclature and the
infinitessimal differences between SAAMI and CIP specs or
definitions. It is true that CIP recognised proof houses,
or the British ones at any rate, offer the customer the
option of proofing to 19 tons or 20 tons per square inch
pressure, and also whether one prefers the item stamped 7.62
or .308 by way of caliber. Funny thing that we are supposed
to define all things in metric measure these days, according
to EU laws and UK legislation enforcing them upon us - doesn't
seem to apply in UK proofing, though when it does to the
description of what is essentially the same ammo, it leads to
all this palaver. What pray, is the metric description for 12
bore, 16 bore etc let alone .410? Please don't answer if
it is going to be another load of boring correspondence <G> ;-)
As ffor 7.62/.308 apart from the imperial/metric dimensioning,
the only real differences between all of them are in relation
to manufacturing details on the cases, projectiles, materials,
propellants, primers, freespace above the powder against
compressed loads, crimp style and degree,presence or not of
bullet lacquering, variation from ideal dimensions on the
shoulders, case lengths, case thickness (particularly at the
neck), plus of course propellant ignition characteristics
(burning time v pressure curves etc) and uniformity, etc.,etc.
In short, quality of overall manufacture is the key, as with
any commodity. The only other possible relevance with regard
to "surplus ammunition" is why it may not have been used by
its original owners, e.g. was there a perceived problem with
that batch, and also its age (as cartridge brass crystallises
with age). The inhibitors in modern propellants to prevent
the active chemicals degrading, are intended to work for a
minimum of ten years, which is also the point at which most
Government End Users adopt a policy of rotating their stores
after 10 years, which accounts for the majority of the
"military surplus" market.
Certain types of Winchester ammo and cases produced in
the past were very much sought after by Match Target
shooters, as they had thinner case walls and thus had a
greater case volume enabling more propellant to be loaded
(via long drop tubes), in order to obtain higher velocities.
Lake City arsenal (LC headstamp) in the USA is renowned for
producing very good ammunition from time to time, and I
believe also produce all the US services match ammunition.
Even then some of its production is less than ideal. For
example, with the development work on the US M14 rifle,
Springfield Armory (the Government arsenal, not the
commercial outfit that later adopted that trading name)
encountered enormous problems in the early years where
the production prototype rifles would not hold the required
tight groups. It was not until everything had been picked
over, honed up and redesigned ad infinitum, that it was
discovered that the Lake City "Match Ammunition"
would in itself not hold the specified group size required
of the rifle! As a result, when good ammo was provided for
the testing, bingo! the M 14's superb performance was
properly delivered. I believe the excellence of that
rifle was largely due to this, unintended development
programme intensity.
The basic manufacturing methods of the components as well
as their assembly, vary enormously. The Chinese (People's
Republic - not Taiwanese) 7.62 Norinco is steel cased with
steel jacketed bullets, with a flashing of electro-plating
to make them look a bit like brass and copper. I won't
attempt to describe them as I would inevitably lapse into
the vernacular, but if anyone is foolish or mean enough to
use this appalling ammo, I am not the least surprised if
they get all sorts of problems and ruin their rifles
at the very least! FNM and S&B have copper plated steel
jackets on much of their ammo, though some does shoot quite
well, ordinary FNM (as opposed to their "sniper grade") does
appear to vary considerably in pressure, some being very
hot indeed. Of some 48,000 rounds I fired through my two
M1A Match rifles (before they were banished without
recompense by the government), I only had 5 malfunctions
with those rifles, all ammo related, three being FNM
overpressure rounds, the other two being RG defects.
Cartridge brass, when it is brass, varies in its
composition from 70/30 to 80/20 ratios. One is tougher
than the other, but more difficult to deep draw, hence
certain makes, particularly the "scandiwegian" makes, tend
to use the softer type brass. That flows or "upsets" more
readily in manufacture, but of course consequently also
more easily in use when it is fired.
The Remington 700 rifle has been the adopted US Marine Corp
and general services sniper rifle for decades. It is fed
with all the usual military issues of ammunition as is
necessary for in line equipment. Carlos Hathcock and I am
quite sure Chuck Mawhinney, who was recently reported here
as being the top rated sniper in Vietnam, both used
Remington 700's , through which countless rounds of all
natures of 7.62 and .308 ammo have been poured and
still are, with excellent effect.
I do really wish that some of the CS contributors would
research their subject matter before pouring out endless
drivel which may have the effect of scaremongering and
blighting perfectly good and safe practices and some
excellent equipment !
Regards,
Peter Sarony - Armalon Limited.
--
The point about surplus ammo is worth bearing in mind. A lot
of people seem to assume that surplus ammo is just ammo that
is being gotten rid off due to its age but that is a mistake.
A lot of surplus ammo is surplus because there is something
wrong with it. There was a large amount of Canadian ammo
dumped on the market in the early 90s that had defective
bullet jackets that could shred in the bore of the rifle.
A few dozen rounds of that and you could blow your barrel.
Israeli surplus ammo in particular is to be avoided, in my
experience. The Israelis don't declare something surplus
unless it really is worn out or there is something wrong
with it.
I basically don't buy military surplus ammo anymore because
I have had too many bad experiences with it. Sometimes
you're lucky, a lot of times you aren't. Police surplus
is best, because it's commercial ammo that they've decided
to sell off, I've never had a problem buying police surplus
ammo.
If you buy surplus ammo, check out the background first.
Steve.
Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org
List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
___________________________________________________________
T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16
Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
