Bob, gotcha. Completely understand! I think the way you've defined recovery is pretty typical. When I read "real recovery" I honestly thought you were going for true recovery (<55% power threshold, HR < 68% threshold) and I knew the numbers just weren't adding up. But I understand now. Would love to come hang out and ride with you some time if you ever have time to humor someone like me.
James, there are a number of decent books that cover these topics. True recovery rides are usually used (as Bob pointed out) by people who race or on a "training" schedule. It's a way to clear lactate, clean up junk, keep aerobic enzyme production up and keep your legs primed...among a number of other things. You can ride how you like, but for a RECOVERY ride (as described above as <55% power threshold, HR < 68% threshold) the goal is BLOOD FLOW to the legs with as little WORK as possible. You want muscle contraction and vessel dilation. The physics of higher cadence achieves this in a number of ways. I would also note that people who race and/or have "training" schedules generally self select higher cadence; again for a number of reasons. I'm not a coach, I'm not a know it all, I do not have the official credentials to explain the physiology behind this (though prior to my current profession I was a cell biology major so I actually do have the background). WIth that said, just from what you've written, I think you probably don't need recovery rides. I don't know where you got 3 additional days for recovery. I haven't said anything that would give that idea. But from Bob's last reply I think he and I are on the same page. ;-) On Sep 1, 3:40 pm, James Lamm <[email protected]> wrote: > Chris, > > Thanks for the training info. Many of us could probably use even more > clarification. > > I am a pusher rather than a spinner. I generally ride at an average speed > of 16 to 18 mph and feel that I'm working harder spinning at 88 to 100 rpm > in a gear that would equate to 15 mph than to spin at 70 rpm at 15 mph. So > are you suggesting that the faster spin is better for me? If so, in what > way is it better? > > I generally ride 3 times per week - 2 rides for about 25 - 30 miles and 1 > ride for about 40 to 60 miles.. Are you suggesting that I need to ride 3 > additional days for about an hour for recovery. If so, how does this > help? On most rides, my legs feel heavy for about the first hour but begin > to feel better and stronger after I warm up. If I start out too fast , not > only my legs but my whole body tends to bonk. > > Please understand that I'm not disagreeing with you but am trying to > understand. > > Also, I haven't used a heart rate monitor in the past and could probably > benefit if I had some information on how to use it - zones and what not. > > James > > > > On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Chris Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > > Jim, I think for MOST cyclists a "recovery ride" means a hard ride > > that is only slightly less difficult than the mind blowing hard ride > > the day before. Or, as hard as ones legs will allow them to go the day > > after a hard ride. The problem is you are not going hard enough or > > long enough to force adaptation at either level. So you basically dig > > your hole deeper without reaping the benefits from training. And at > > most of our ages, this is not a good thing. We don't recover like the > > 20 year olds who can go out and do multiple consecutive days of z4-6 > > work. > > > I (and many others I know) have posted personal bests on a first > > training day following a REAL RECOVERY ride. Not only does a real > > recovery ride (more appropriately called "active recovery") aid the > > recovery process, but as I understand it also helps keep aerobic > > enzyme production up so your legs don't feel "dead" the next day; we > > all know the dreaded heavy lactate feeling you get when you go to ride > > the day after being totally off the bike. > > > For what it's worth, you can't escape self-selected cadence (without > > doing so very conscientiously), but the consensus is that recovery > > should be higher cadence, meaning 88ish-100 rpms. You tend to get best > > blood flow and pedal torque low to ensure minimal "work." > > > SSP, glad I didn't come off wrong. I'd like to think in the bike world > > we all share knowledge with each other. After all, the goal is to get > > faster and stronger, right? So I figure we should all share info when > > it will help someone else or when someone else obviously has the wrong > > idea about something. > > > I also know there are guys on every corner who think they are pro > > sportiffs and are itching to correct someone and dole out instructions > > every chance they get. And I do NOT want to sound like that sort of > > guy. ;-) > > > By all means, if anyone sees that I'm off base or misinformed with any > > of this info, please correct me. :-) > > > On Sep 1, 11:03 am, ssp <[email protected]> wrote: > > > It is good to hear the advice of an experienced > > > cyclist. I, for one, appreciate you taking the time > > > to share your thoughts. > > > thanks > > > bert > > > > On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Chris Smith <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > Well, picking an arbitrary number, I'd say 99% of cyclists don't do > > > > "true" recovery rides. Most end up doing a ride that is between zone 2 > > > > and 3, and/or ride too long/far. But when I was reading through the > > > > posts, I noticed Bob's post here said "real recovery," which I thought > > > > made the distinction between "real" and what most people do. Like I > > > > said, I wasn't trying to get into anyone's business, but > > > > constructively pointing out that if someone thinks the ride described > > > > is a real recovery, it is NOT. No way to say 100% without power > > > > numbers, but I think it's safe to generalize here and say it's likely > > > > a zone 2-3 ride and I imagine probably too long s well (but he didn't > > > > say how long he rode). > > > > > Which brings me to the question, why do people not do REAL recovery > > > > rides??? I think they are the single most enjoyable ride(s) I do all > > > > week!! Ride should be a maximum of ONE hour. I usually end up with a > > > > 70-100 watt average,which typically equates to 13-15 mph average > > > > depending on winds. And when you finish the ride your lgs are so warm > > > > and tingly it's scary! So warm and tingly and relaxed that I MUCH > > > > prefer a recovery ride to a massage any day of the week!! > > > > > Anyway, not trying to sound like a know it all...just trying to offer > > > > some constructive feedback. As we start to lose daylight I'm going to > > > > need to find some folks in Wilson to ride with on days have to work. > > > > > On Sep 1, 7:55 am, Marian Mathews <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > None of the COWS that post on this site ever do a true recovery ride. > > > > The > > > > > word recovery is used extremely loose with this group. > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 7:44 AM, Chris Smith <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > Not to get in your business, but a HR of 130-150 is not recovery > > unless > > > > > > you have a god awful high resting HR. And unless you had a 15-20 > > mph > > > > > > tailwind, an 18mph avg is not true recovery either. Sounds like u > > did a > > > > > > zone 2ish ride, and depending on how strong you are, possibly a > > zone > > > > 3, or > > > > > > mix of both based on HR. I mean this constructively, hope I am not > > > > out of > > > > > > line posting this. > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > Groups > > > > > > "CyclistsOfWilson-COWs" group. > > > > > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/cyclistsofwilson-cows/-/00npN2qz_PYJ. > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > > > > [email protected]. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > > [email protected]. > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/cyclistsofwilson-cows?hl=en.-Hide > > > > quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups > > > > "CyclistsOfWilson-COWs" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > > [email protected]. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > [email protected]. > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/cyclistsofwilson-cows?hl=en.-Hide > > quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "CyclistsOfWilson-COWs" group. > > To post to this group, send email to > > [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]. > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/cyclistsofwilson-cows?hl=en.- Hide quoted > >text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CyclistsOfWilson-COWs" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cyclistsofwilson-cows?hl=en.
