Come on out of the basement boys.....
Try North Korea and Cuba for a commie view, for all you socialist, take a
look at European friends, yeah that works well, or maybe take a look at what
the bitch wanted to do with health care, thank-you freaks who put that pair
in office.
Lets take a look over to the sandy shore and and see what nerve gas they are
testing on their people today.
People and the right, yeah, I think the USA is good enough for me. Yeah we
have Waco, Ruby ridge and all the crap. But we are able to have all the crap
and play a role in it if we want.
Try that somewhere else in the world and see what happens.
Freedom baby, sing it loud and proud, some people don't get to pick, but I
do, and I pick freedom baby, sweet freedom.
P.S. and to all those that bitch about having a choice, LEAVE.......
take care and protect that freedom.......
And if you get a chance to travel abroad and experience some of other
people's freedom in the world, do it and lets see you bitch about something
you know nothing about.........
Oh yeah, what ever go god you believe in loves you, try that somewhere else,
I know, I know, don't mix the pol& relg,
sorry
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Jim Burnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: damn commie hypocrite leech! (was Re: Re: Re: why worry?)
>Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 23:20:35 -0500 (EST)
>
>
>
> > ----------
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: February 29, 2000 11:20:35 PM
> > To: Jim Burnes
> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: damn commie hypocrite leech! (was Re: Re: Re: why worry?)
> > Auto forwarded by a Rule
> >
>Sorry for the delay in response -- my provider has had some problems
>as of late.
>
>On Mon, 28 Feb 2000, Jim Burnes wrote:
>
> > Well, OK...thats a null statement. Most people have no idea what
>conditions
> > are in other nations. Why should they care? (unless they dont like
>where
> > they are living and want to move).
>
>Thats fine -- but then be fair and don't condemn a system that one
>knows nothing about. Anything less is bullshit propaganda.
>
> > Talk about your broad brushes. I know a lot of Americans who have read
> > the "Manifesto" long enough to be revolted by it. But Joe Sixpack
> > also lives by its tenets without realizing that what they are.
>
>...
>
> > Most Americans are so dependent, so hopelessly inurred with the current
> > lifestyle that they wouldn't recognize communism if it bit them in the
>ass.
>
>Agreed. That is precisely my point -- and yet they condemn it with all
>of the passion that the state says a good citizen should.
>
>10 minute hate sound familiar?
>
> > Lets be real up front here. Unless you have been out to lunch recently
> > Communism is an experiment that failed so miserably it exterminated
> > almost 100 million human beings last century. If that were a disease
> > we would have government funded programs to wipe it out. Actively
> > trying to infect people with it would land you in jail.
>
>Agreed. And I'm not a communist. I'm not arguing for communism; in
>fact, I would argue AGAINST it .. but:
>
>I would not propose to wipe out a disease without having properly studied
>it to see whether it was worth wiping out to begin with!
>
>Neither should men condemn communism if they know nothing about it.
>
> > Wow. People making choices and seeing what happens. If you don't think
> > that basket weaving is a good profession, do something else so that you
> > can make more money. Else don't complain.
>
>Good idea -- too bad it isn't always so easy to just up and change your
>profession, or go back to school when you have 3 kids.
>
>Sometimes people make bad choices, I agree -- but I don't agree that one
>should have to pay for the rest of their life because of it.
>
> > > since we all know that companies will work your ass 39 hours a week to
> > > keep you from getting benefits, while maximizing their efficiency.
> > >
> >
> > Buy your own goddamn benefits. Last time I checked they were $3000/year
> > for a nominal family of 3. Benefits are not free. That are not free to
> > provide.
>
>No. Let the companies pay for them. If I am going to give them my sweat,
>time away from my loved ones and the fruit of my talents and labor the
>least they can do is make my life a little more cushy .. or give me
>more green up front.. either is acceptable. But if you are going to
>scale down the wage, then be prepared to compensate the worker in other
>ways.
>
> > > Capitalism, with its emphasis on the profit margin can't always afford
> > > to give the working poor a decent wage, therefore we need social
>programs
> > > to help the honest, working poor.
> >
> > And communism can give the working poor a decent wage?
>
>Strawman. I never said that, and it isn't implied. There is a world of
>difference between full blown communism and government-sponsored social
>programs to help the poor.
>
>And note, that I said government-sponsored not taxpayer-sponsored ..
>it is entirely feasible for the government to get their money in
>other ways.
>
> > > "The answer to our question (what do we do about the poor) is simple:
> > > nothing. We need an impoverished working class to supply cheap labor
>to
> > > our corporations. They must, after all, turn a profit."
> >
> > These people need low wage jobs because without them you have capital
> > flight to China (home of your beloved socialists) where the average
> > worker makes a hell of a lot less. Of course thats because they are
> > virtual slaves to the "People's Army". And that is the system you
> > would prefer?
>
>Never said that, did I?
>
> > > Michael J. Graffam ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> > > "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
> > > "Who watches the watchmen?" - Juvenal, Satires, VI, 347
> >
> > Indeed. You need to take a course in formal logic (propositional
>calculus)
> > as you don't see the implications of your own quotes.
>
>HAH! I have never once made an argument for Communism. I never once said
>I wanted to live in China. I simply support a few large, organized social
>programs for our poor -- most probably government run; but Gates certainly
>has the resources to start up a wonderful system.
>
>Thats all. Charity. You are the one that claims that I am a socialist,
>which I am not.
>
>For a fan of formal logic, you build up a fine army of strawmen.
>
>My point is merely that I would rather have people who oppose communism
>because they understand it, and do not agree, rather than a populace that
>hates communism because the State tells them too.
>
>That latter is what we have now. That was my original claim. That American
>people should not rally against that which they do not understand in the
>least.
>
> > Juvenal is saying "who watches the elites?". In any communist system
>"those
> > who know best" must be watched. Of course as soon as you watch them
>you
> > start your vacation in beautiful sunny Siberia. And that is a one-way
> > ticket.
>
>First, I'd like to see you argue from the foundations of communism that
>socialism/communism REQUIRES such a tyrannical rule. Don't argue history.
>Anyone who knows anything about Marx knows he would have hated the USSR
>and China.
>
>Failing that, the above comment is best rephrased as 'in any communist
>state we have seen "those who know best" ...'
>
>And that is hardly a conclusion, given a cursory read of a history book.
>
>There are also those that would argue that a straight-out balls to the
>wall tyranny is preferred to the subtle theft-of-liberty that we see
>here in America .. simply because it is easier to see such a tyranny
>coming, and easier to fight (one can rally supporters easier and give
>them guns, other nations cannot so easily turn a blind eye, etc).
>
>From a militarist's POV, I can understand the argument .. of course,
>personally, I'd rather vote in vain here in the States than get
>shot in China.
>
>Michael J. Graffam ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
>
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