-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 03/22/2018 03:52 PM, jim bell wrote: > > > On Thursday, March 22, 2018, 10:57:35 AM PDT, Marina Brown > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >>> I am not in support of borders and i support people's right to >>> travel >> without "Papers". >> >> >> >> I notice that you don't distinguish between public (government) >> borders and private (private property) borders. Why is that? I >> oppose government borders. But I believe in the concept of >> private property, which amounts to the right to exclude others >> from that property. We live on the surface (2 dimensional, more >> or less) of a sphere (Earth) and we desire to travel and have >> goods (and information) brought to us. That will require that >> roads and other utilities be constructed and maintained, and that >> costs money. The people who finance such construction will >> therefore have rights. > > > > [stuff deleted] > > > >>> For what it's worth, I also oppose it when government requires >>> people to show some sort of identification in order to travel. >>> But I believe I cannot prohibit it if a private >>> (non-governmental) company such as an airline decides, for >>> itself, that it will insist on identification in order to allow >>> passengers to travel. The risk to fellow passengers has become >>> too great (hijacking, bombing, etc) to avoid this, sadly. I >>> COULD choose to take airlines that DIDN'T require people to >>> identify themselves. Presumably, such airlines will exist when >>> that is allowed. > > > [stuff deleted] > > > >> Most libertarians are opposed to collectivism. The idea that a > neihborhood or country is privately owned by the members who then > can keep anyone out or kick people out can become rather > nightmarish form of collectivism. > > > Maybe you need to think things through. We are, indeed, stuck on > a 2-dimensional surface. Currently, it is as if all roads are > owned by some kind of government, a major example of collectivism. > Generally, libertarians tend to support organization (where it > exists) at the lowest practical level, as opposed to higher levels. > Is there some reason that you think it's better that a city > government over, say, 250,000 people to have control, rather than a > neighborhood agreement by the owners of, say, 250 houses? Or of > 25 houses? > > > >> I tend to support voluntary associations except when they become > repressive and totalitarian. > > > > A person's control over his own property and assets might be > (humorously) described as "repressive and totalitarian". > Remember the comic movie, "History of the World Part 1" by Mel > Brooks: "It's good to be the King!". As I see it, the alternative > to private property is collective ownership, which quickly turns > into Socialist and Communist control and oppression. (And I > consider Naziism to merely be another version of Socialism, see the > Wikipedia article on Benito Mussolini. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Mussolini × // > > > >> Heck, even homeowner associations sometimes > become repressive. ...which is why i live out in the sticks where > you don't even need a permit to build things. > > > > Perfectly good reason. But maybe a better solution would be to > ensure that "homowner associations" have no more power than they > need, to do whatever they were originally intended to accomplish. > . >
That's kind of the key that both left libertarians and regular libertarians are looking to do. There are not set solutions. When a solution leads to a totalitarian situation that is a sign that it is wrong. > Jim Bell > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQGcBAEBCAAGBQJatDK3AAoJEPn/Y5FXPbRC9yAL/3cps7QqaNR1UIQOjPILT2cU GPwmS7P5ZvMVVuIxDo3x5Wgga19/GEJMXx3zkUT941w7bdM0gvjKwQqn5j31Vg0F ZCN1kjXwlhmI9OqgXih74s7Uk3Xoh2TvXCqxlK7CHZkO3m13guP7P+rk9EHY++19 PydqS31KB2FKz3RBsFoytkJ2SnVtuJKBNjtZmZ6pCX2K+xfapY8PVKsqRfPees8C tMpdp+6ebk3yB1Bd9AhUhm3Eo73/A7UhtCj5Chh1Vz4x8JlShnugsQtg/iJbjZxL gf/79bhXJs7ZyTEJrP62GTTWJCuM4/sepL5bHbqRnFOyscjvqXwv1n8k0VNIRJCq +GjS1ivJbiu7Gy2hEIMVePNv35zDr7HG8BSsWOCj0l8YAMXALP1sDCL19eAy1uL4 kBtyJ5AMmf9HVVnvuVCu6NqTtYE3UMvFetGZ2tKSIrEPoz/IYH0gX0pyTNH3UQcf EK/csugelH70DTnBcAPZz5XaMsKdfVaCfudJRRiyCg== =0qVE -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
