Right now in darkroom there is a small copy(?) of the image displayed in the upper left corner. As you zoom a box appears and you can move it around to change what is displayed on the main image window? When you make changes, they are reflected back to the small image. Is it possible to take the small image and put it on a second monitor full size, or "borrow" the code that drives the small image and adapt it to a second monitor?
Just a thought... Bill On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 1:47 PM, Tobias Ellinghaus <[email protected]> wrote: > Am Sonntag, 18. März 2018, 18:27:22 CET schrieb Robert Bieber: > > Interesting, could you link me to that old discussion, by any chance? > > Or do you remember the email title? I've heard recently that Lightroom > > has some really useful dual-window functionality as well that works > > quite a bit differently from the detachable panels I was working on, so > > I've been meaning to look into how they do it as well. > > It was on IRC, logs pasted below. At least the ones I could quickly find. > > > -Robby > > <Kabouik> Is there any plan for dual-head support in Darktable? I've > read the > old statements on the wiki about the difficulties caused by color > management > among monitors, but it could still be an option offered to the user with a > warning on whether he should trust colors in the second monitor or not. > <Kabouik> Dual-monitor support in raw processing can still be very > useful for > much more than colors, including exposure, contrast, clarity, vignetting, > cropping, sharpness, overall field of view and composition... > <Kabouik> I find it very hard to step back from Lightroom just > because of this > feature, I have two monitors and can only use one in Darktable. Processing > raws implies pressing Tab all the time to show the picture and evaluate > previous modifications. Displaying portrait picture in full is also not > very > good even with tab, while I could use my 90°-rotated secondary monitor for > this. Feels a bit like a waste, even with imperfect colors. > <Kabouik> I'm sure I'm not the only one to have two monitors in the > Darktable > userbase and to see benefits in a secondary display, even with unreliable > colors. > <houz> i can't really envision what a dual head gui would look like. just > all > the sliders on one monitor and the image on the 2nd? > <houz> Kabouik: ^ > <houz> or do you want to see the image in a 2nd window, so you have it > twice? > <Kabouik> No houz, actually what most people who requested it so far > would > look for something very simple, like Lightroom currently provides: the > second > monitor would just show your current picture being edited in darkroom, > almost > in fullscreen, with simple tools like zoom in/out, 1:1, adapt to screen, > and > maybe a before/after comparison. That's all. > <houz> 1) i never used lightroom. 2) when the 2nd screen shows the image > with > extra controls, does the 1st screen show the image, too? > <Kabouik> It would allow one to edit a picture with all the sliders > and > plugins on one screen (and therefore a small view of the image because half > the screen estate is reserved to plugins/tools), and a preview of the final > result in large size in the second monitor. It gives a very noticeable use > to > a screen otherwise not used at all during the process. > <Kabouik> Yes the 1st screen shows the image as well, let me check > if I can > find screenshots (currently on Linux so I can't run LR myself) > <houz> when zomming/panning one image view, does the other one follow? or > are > they independent? > <Kabouik> https://www.flickr.com/photos/vangeles/10761080605/ > here's one > example with one monitor in portrait (this is my case, although I do it the > other way: controls on the landscape screen, preview on the portrait > screen) > <Kabouik> It actually proves *really* useful one you tried it, > honestly even > with the steep learning curve of Darktable, this is by far what holds me > back > the most (even though I really am trying to move to Darktable) > <Kabouik> They are independent houz > <Kabouik> That's one of the things that make it really useful > <Kabouik> You can see changes in 1:1 in one screen and keep an eye > on the > whole image at the same time. Really useful even with imperfect colors > matching between screens (like sharpness, details, noise...) > <houz> that would require substantial changes to dt i assume > <houz> or at least be quite slow > <Kabouik> Would it be so slow? I never saw any performance impact > with or > without the dual head feature in LR > <Kabouik> And my computer is not very powerful. > <houz> no idea how lr works, i was just talking about dt > <houz> we would have to compute everything twice > <Kabouik> I have no skills in coding/dev so forgive me if I was > oversimplying > the thing, but isn't it just a cloned view of the current image display in > Darktable? > <Kabouik> Darktable currently resizes the view (or not) depending on > the zoom > level, but it would still be the same image with the same processing, just > displayed twice in two different sizes > <houz> if it showed the same in both views it were a cloned view, but if > the > regions shown may differ, zoom levels may differ, color profiles may > differ, > ... it's a completely independent rendering > <houz> it might still be feasible, maybe with one of the views being > updated > lazily > <houz> so that the small preview on the edit-screen gets real time > updates, and > the other one may lag a little > <houz> once you move your head to the 2nd screen you are probably not > dragging > sliders, so dt can catch up > <Kabouik> It could be just an option that the user can choose not to > use if > the impact is too big on performance (or if he has only one monitor of > course). One way to put it could be to have [1] and [2] icons on top of the > main view, [1] being enabled by default, while [2] could be a togglable > secondary view in a separate (movable) window. It could serve as a before/ > after comparison between [1] and [2], or just the features detailed above > here. > <Kabouik> Yes, giving less priority to the rendering on the second > view would > make sense > <houz> i can see how it would be a useful feature, but even if anyone > decides > to write the code it'll take time > <Kabouik> But my point is it really is a feature that is hard to > give up once > you tried it. I really don't want to support Adobe or LR, and all their > choices are not necessarily perfect, but this provides real comfort that > you > can feel, and miss when you can't get it in DT > <houz> i understand that. but code doesn't write itself. and currently we > are > about 2.5 devs working on dt. part time. > <Kabouik> Unfortunately feedback from the devs has not shown much > interest in > it (even if some people suggested the feature more than 5 years ago). The > main > reason for it being reject/pushed back is the color management issue, but I > think it's not mandatory and beenfits would still be significant without > proper color matching. > <Kabouik> I totally understand that houz > <Kabouik> My point was to add one vote to this old feature request. > My concern > was that maybe none of the devs ever tried dual head in LR since they are > in > DT from the beginning, and maybe do not have a comprehensive view of the > benefits. Just wanted to illustrate them and emphasize that they are real! > :] > <Kabouik> *Even with imperfect color matching among screens, the > main concern > described so far.* > <houz> well, voting is not really a thing in darktable development. ;-) > <user8393> i use a dual monitor setup to quickly evaluate images: on > the left > screen the lighttable view, on the right screen the single image view. if i > navigate through the images on the left screen, the image on the right > screen > is updates. > <Kabouik> I know, that's why I'm chitchatting and developping the > arguments on > IRC instead of just posting a +1 on some old bug/feature tracker :p > <user8393> however, although both screens are calibrated, the image > looks a bit > different on the second. but that might be a problem of two screens on one > graphics card. > <houz> user8393: that's something completely different and very unlikely > to be > added: lighttable and darkroom at the same time > <Kabouik> Yes, they are different for me as well user8393, but yet I > still see > that I'm like twice slower when processing raws with just one screen in use > <user8393> i don't speak of the darkroom on the second screen. it's > just a > larger image view. > <houz> ah, ok > <Kabouik> Yeah user8393 is just talking about lighttable on the left > with > thumbnails, and "larger thumbnail" (to the point that only one is shown) on > the right > <Kabouik> That's another use of dual-head: can be useful in both > lighttable > and darkroom > <user8393> yes, i agree. having one view for the overall image view > and a > second for details. > <houz> once we have a 2nd "preview/detail" window we can use it in > lighttable > and darkroom i suppose > <houz> lighttable would be even easier i guess as we don't need to do > expensive > computations there > <Kabouik> To be honest I think I really am twice slower without dual > head, and > it's harder to focus because you change views and zoom levels all the time > <houz> dunno, i never missed it > <houz> i'll think about it > <Kabouik> See it as a good bandwith connection: you don't miss it > and think > you're above that... Until you try it. :p > <Kabouik> Anyway thank a lot for taking the time to discuss it here > houz, it's > greatly appreciated! > <houz> sure :) > <houz> i am always happy when i can add more things to the ever growing > todo > list ^^ > <Kabouik> I am sure you are! > <Kabouik> For reference, here is an old feature request on Redmine: > https:// > redmine.darktable.org/issues/8762 and on the wiki: https:// > redmine.darktable.org/projects/darktable/wiki/DualHead > <Kabouik> But logs of the above discussion could be added there to > bring grist > to the mill and on the importance of the color issue. > <Kabouik> By the way I'm amazed that there are only 2.5 people > currently > working on an ambitious (and good) project like Darktable. It's kind of > encouraging when you see what is being done by just few people on part > time, > but depressing that there are not more contributors on such a think that > rivals big fish like Adobe. I'm sorry I have no skills to help, but thank > you > guys for your work and commitment. > <user8393> houz, kabouik: here are a video and an article explaining > it: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKsxtUUb39I&feature=youtu.be, http:// > www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1881387&seqNum=4 > <Kabouik> thing* > <houz> maybe it's 3 or 4, it changes over time > <houz> user8393: i don't really want to know what lr does so i am not > going to > watch those. > <houz> copying lr is not on my task list > <Kabouik> Can't check the video now user8393, I will later. In my > opinion the > best is to have a landscape and a portrait screen, so you can preview all > your > photos using all the screen estate, but not all people like portrait > monitors. > <user8393> houz: it was meant as input to understand what we mean, > not to clone > lr. > ____________________________________________________________________________ darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to [email protected]
