As indicated in http://lists.debian.org/debian-jr/2006/02/msg00008.html I would like us to completely restructure Debian Jr. package listings around debtags instead of the current metapackage based system.
Here is a review of what in our junior-* metapackages and what is tagged with junior::* tags (except for the junior::meta tags, which should simply go away once the metapackages are killed off) in the debtags database. $ apt-cache show junior-arcade |grep Depends Depends: bugsquish, bumprace, circuslinux, cuyo, heroes, koules, lbreakout2, madbomber, thrust, toppler, wing, xscavenger, xsoldier, zblast-x11 $ echo `debtags search junior::arcade | cut -d' ' -f1` bugsquish bumprace circuslinux circuslinux-data cuyo koules lbreakout2 madbomber moon-buggy moon-buggy-esd thrust toppler tuxmath wing xblast xpilot xscavenger xsoldier zblast-svgalib zblast-x11 1. In debtags, circuslinux-data has been added. While it is not strictly required in order for a debtags-based Debian Jr. install to work (circuslinux depends on it, so it would be included anyway) certainly there is a logic to tagging all data packages that belong to junior applications with a junior-faceted tag. 2. In debtags, moon-buggy and moon-buggy-esd are included as junior::arcade, even though it is classified by us in junior-games-text, and likewise, xblast and xpilot, even though we put these in junior-games-net. Such discrepancies will no longer matter when we move from metapackages to debtags because under debtags, packages can be classified multiple ways. The moon-buggy packages are tagged game::arcade and interface::text-mode already. However, neither xblast nor xpilot have tags indicating they have a networked mode of play. We'll have to follow up with the debtags maintainers about that. 3. In debtags, tuxmath has been added. I certainly agree we should add it. Thanks, whoever added this. As you can see, it is easier to collaborate with the rest of Debian to keep our listings up-to-date when we use debtags. 4. Both zblast-svgalib and zblast-x11 are tagged as junior packages. However, I had consciously omitted zblast-svgalib as an alternative in my junior-arcade package because of the security implications of svgalib games. Therefore, I think we should drop the tag from zblast-svgalib. $ apt-cache show junior-games-gl |grep Depends Depends: armagetron, bzflag, gltron, tuxkart, planetpenguin-racer $ echo `debtags search junior::games-gl | cut -d' ' -f1` armagetron bzflag gltron gnubik torcs tuxkart tuxkart-data 5. Here is a case where my metas are a bit ahead of the debtags effort. Since tuxracer was renamed planetpenguin-racer, it seems debtags has not yet caught up. 6. Again, someone has helpfully made a contribution on their own: gnubik is a nice addition to the Junior gl-based games. Of course, we'll have to keep on top of the junior debtags additions since anyone can add them, and we might not always agree. Perhaps we could have the debtags maintainers filter changes and email notification about junior tag changes to this list so we can review them. I'm particularly concerned about how we'll manage changes as we near and then finally reach the release date for Etch. We will want to ensure that Etch packages are tagged the way we want and are not altered at the last minute without being reviewed by us. We'll have to discuss with the debtags maintainers how to implement this. $ apt-cache show junior-art |grep Depends Depends: gimp, tuxpaint, xpaint 7. It could be argued that gimp should be junior::extra, not core, and xpaint might even be removed altogether. Do kids still use this? My kids always reach for tuxpaint. $ apt-cache show junior-games-card |grep Depends Depends: ace-of-penguins, pysol $ apt-cache show junior-games-net |grep Depends Depends: xpilot, xblast 8. My 11-year-old and 15-year-old kids also enjoy the Battle for Wesnoth. $ apt-cache show junior-games-sim |grep Depends Depends: freeciv, lincity 9. None of our kids have shown an interest in these. I'd like to hear from others about how well their kids take to these games. $ apt-cache show junior-games-text |grep Depends Depends: bsdgames, moon-buggy | moon-buggy-esd, nettoe, zivot $ apt-cache show junior-gnome |grep Depends Depends: gbatnav, gcompris, mathwar $ apt-cache show junior-kde |grep Depends Depends: kig, kstars, ktuberling, kworldclock $ apt-cache show junior-math |grep Depends Depends: bc, bsdgames, snowflake, xaos, xbase-clients $ apt-cache show junior-programming |grep Depends Depends: ucblogo, python2.3, python2.3-doc, python-tk, python-mode, idle, drscheme 10. I have always had a hard time with this particular metapackage. It seems to me that programming will not appeal to any more than a select few children, and then the choice of language is going to be largely a matter of taste, depending on who is doing the teaching. With the exception of ucblogo, which is specifically geared towards kids, I don't think any of these belong in Debian Jr. The other day on irc, someone brought to my attention a promising package in this category for which I have not yet seen an ITP: http://littlewizard.sourceforge.net/. $ apt-cache show junior-puzzle |grep Depends Depends: codebreaker, frozen-bubble, gtans, lmemory, xjig $ apt-cache show junior-sound |grep Depends Depends: bplay, cdtool, grip, vorbis-tools, xmms $ apt-cache show junior-system |grep Depends Depends: mc, hello, lavaps, xcruise $ apt-cache show junior-toys |grep Depends Depends: lletters, oneko, xfireworks, xfishtank, xhangglider, xpenguins, xplanet, xplanet-images, xscreensaver, xteddy $ apt-cache show junior-typing |grep Depends Depends: tipptrainer, typespeed, gtypist, xletters 11. Notably missing is tuxtype, which is being worked on. I'm looking forward to a release any day now that will fix copyright issues. $ apt-cache show junior-writing |grep Depends Depends: emacs21 | emacsen, vim, nedit, nano, dict, aspell, abiword | abiword-gnome 12. I think emacs21, vim, and possibly nedit should be junior::extra, whereas the others should be junior::core. $ apt-cache show junior-internet |grep Depends Depends: firefox 13. You'll notice I really gutted this package. Aside from the web and a few networked games, my kids don't really use other Internet apps. Finally, junior-doc isn't mentioned anywhere above. It is not a metapackage and is not in any metapackages, though it is erroneously tagged junior::meta in the debtags database. It should simply be tagged junior::core. I'm waiting for some discussion before we move ahead on any of these changes, so let's get started. Ben -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
