On Friday 29 February 2008 01:25:43 pm Francesco Poli wrote: > On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:42:06 -0800 Sean Kellogg wrote: > > On Thursday 28 February 2008 04:09:34 pm Francesco Poli wrote: > > [...] > > > > So to conclude, I think it is actually true that there's no way for > > > someone to *compel* Debian to accept a given license as "free". > > > > The question being asked is "Is there any way for me to compel Debian to > > accept that my license is free?" and the answer is "convince a DD to > > propose a GR, get it seconded, and convince the sufficient number of DDs > > to support your proposal." > > But that is *not* a way to compel Debian to accept the license as > "free". It's a way to *persuade* Debian (to be more precise: the Debian > Project) to accept the license as "free".
Fair enough. > > I trust you will see how this is strikingly different > > from "no". The page makes it sound as if -legal is the final arbiter, > > which is simply untrue. > > Debian-legal is not the final arbiter, but I don't see how the page > could imply it is... Quote: "People on debian-legal don't seem to agree though." There is no conversation about how the opinion of -legal (if one can even say there is such a thing) is just one voice in the process. There is no conversation about the ftp-masters or about the GR process. It presents -legal as your only chance and if you miss out there, tough luck. > > The fact that the questioner cannot vote (assuming they are not a DD, > > which is not implied by the question) does not deny the existence of an > > avenue to compel, it simply means it requires the assistance of others to > > do so, which is the case with pretty much every activity I engage in > > every moment of every day. > > Look, I cannot stress it more than this: if you *convince* the majority > of the members of an organization that the organization should do > something, you are *not* *compelling* the organization to do that > thing; you're just *persuading* the organization to do it... > > > I cannot compel my neighbor to stop throwing his trash into my yard, but > > if I go to a judge and get an order for a police officer to do something > > about it, I very much doubt my neighbor is going to quibble over who, > > exactly, is doing the "compelling." > > But there's no law that compels Debian to accept a license as "free", > so you cannot go to a judge and get an order for a police officer. It's > up to the Debian Project to decide if it accepts a license as "free". > > If you go through the GR method, you are not compelling Debian, you're > persuading it. In your example, the GR method corresponds to going to > your neighbor and suggest that he/she proposes a vote among his/her > family members to decide if they want to stop throwing trash into your > yard or else go on doing so. You don't have vote right, but you > obviously can try and persuade your neighbor's family members to vote > for "stop throwing". You're not compelling anyone, you're trying to > persuade them! > You can even try to get vote right... by becoming a family member of > your neighbor: you can go through the NM, ooops, NB (= New Boyfriend) > process and finally get married with your neighbor's daughter. At that > point you could get vote right, but you still have to persuade your > (new) relatives to vote for "stop throwing": again, it's persuasion, > not compelling! Thanks for playing along with my annology :) But seriously... the GR compels Debian (faceless organization that it is) to do something it is not doing of it's own accord and is, in a way, overturning -legal. But my crticism of the page remains... there is simply no discussion of alternatives and I for one don't accept that by using the word "compel" instead of "convince" the author gets away with not mention other avenues. -Sean -- Sean Kellogg e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
