On 02/09/13 12:14, Thorsten Glaser wrote: > Paul Wise <pabs <at> debian.org> writes: >> Likewise. I don't appreciate the disrespectful tone some folks have >> displayed in this and other recent threads. I would like to remind > > Oh great, and who’s going to deal with trolls then? You’re not > holding Francesco to them, I’m noticing.
I think there's a few mails in the archive from me on those lines, but I usually contact people off-list with such specific criticisms. Basically, I feel it's a minor problem because Francesco seems polite if repetitive - although I think this thread started because someone doesn't follow the list closely, so I'm not sure if that got noticed! > I’ve heard that Francesco is the reason people are considering > unsubscribing from this list. Yes, it’s *that* bad. [...] Well, we "hear" things like that every time someone doesn't agree about whether software follows the DFSG or not, yet the number of subscribers seems to be generally increasing towards some asymptote http://lists.debian.org/stats/debian-legal.png There are solutions short of unsubscribing, such as filtering, if you really cannot stand to hear certain voices. So far, I think I've filtered three people out during 10 years. The conduct on this list has improved over time, but it could always improve further, of course. > (And, for the record, I did try to make constructive suggestions > how Francesco can try to get his point across better.) I noticed a suggestion that Francesco should work to become a DD because he's "not even a Debian Developer!" which seems a bit of a throwback to the "non-package-maintaining contributors not welcomed" dark ages. Even as someone in it, I feel most of the project is moving beyond a keyring-cabal mentality. I also noticed a suggestion that Francesco should shut up and then try to convince the project about the problems with the AGPL "from within"(huh?), which seemed rather absurdly destructive to me: how does someone convince others without explaining the problems? Both of those were in close proximity to some quite sharp words. Were there other suggestions I didn't notice? If not, I think we may have different understandings of "constructive". > Sorry I’m brutally honest. And yes, I stand by my actions. No need to be sorry about honesty: please be sorry for not being polite and collaborative, or at least not being clear. > And, tbh, if this is official (someone finally says something > against a long-standing annoyment, to the rejoicing of other > people including DDs who suffered under said annoyment, only > to be flamed by people who have failed to contribute so far) > I can understand unsubscribing. It’s “only” Debian that suffers. I'm sorry that you feel flamed. That was not my intent. I regret that my debian contributions over recent years have been smaller than I'd like, for various reasons mostly related to working on other projects, but I feel pabs (maintains over thirty packages, does QA uploads and NMUs, sponsors over forty more) has contributed well, so listen to pabs if that's your criteria. Regards, -- MJ Ray (slef) http://people.debian.org/~mjr/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5224a295.1080...@phonecoop.coop