Hi Nicolas, Thanks for the feedback -- valid concerns and besides first 3 points indeed you give the answers I am usually give people: that is why we provide NeuroDebian VM which is used by quite a few users who either have admin access on their boxes or just pursuade IT personnel to do just 1 custom installation for them -- VirtualBox ;-) As for chroot'ing -- it is underused/under-marketed solution IMHO ATM although I have been using it myself quite a bit and even at times advocating it as a workaround for some deployment problems [1]. Also I haven't played with fakechroot yet, which if possible to perfect, could serve as an ultimate resolution for people without admin access.
As for the developers/production: first indeed VM still might be a better choice, second -- we still provide all the Pythonic tools for virtualization/isolation, and after all I decided to position the talk more toward users so I hope not to fall into this debate ;) [1] http://neuro.debian.net/blog/2011/2011-12-12_schroot_fslview.html > PS: by the way, would anyone know of a way to use chroot or something > similar to allow any user to have any number of virtual environments > that use apt-get to install stuff and fall-back to the system if > something is not installed in the virtualenv ? what is your use case? chrootting does allow 'arbitrary' number of virtual environments but I am not sure what kind of fall-back you need. Usually I used chroots in the opposite way, but supplementing main system with tools ran in chroots (see [1] above ;) ) Cheers On Tue, 02 Oct 2012, Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > Hi Yaroslav, > On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 11:40:58AM -0400, Yaroslav Halchenko wrote: > > To not be too ambitious and to not invest too much time I have decided to > > submit only a talk. Here follows a perspective title, abstract and some > > notes/outline which will not be a part of submission. I would really > > appreciate (and of cause would acknowledge in the slides) any feedback, > > ideas, > > comments, etc. > I suggest you would also try to describe the differences between The > Complete Python Distribution On Debian and the others ways there are > to install Python packages. > When I say "I do not need all this easy_install, pip, virtualenv, > distribute/packaging, buildout, /etc/ for I have Debian!", I am > usually told: > - but we have to work on Windows > - but we are not root on the computer we are using and can't run apt-get > - but I want a newer version of X than the one included in Debian > - but I am not doing deployment/production and for development I need the > latest versions of these modules because this component I rely on > says so > - I am preparing things for production, so I need everything to be > reproducible independently of the underlying system > - etc. > I think being prepared to answer these questions and maybe address > some of these issues directly in your slides would help make clear > what Debian is a good solution for. > Possible answers are: > - windows: if it hurts, stop doing it and install virtualbox :p > - not root: try a virtual machine (or maybe a variant of chroot?) > - newer: are you ready to handle all the compatibility/dependency > problems on your own ? > - dev: packaging python modules is easier than getting a full > distribution to work right, take a look at the > GSoC project that packages PyPI/*, your new-and-shiny stuff is > probably there > - prod: you want a chroot or a virtual machine. > - etc. > Hope this helps, > PS: by the way, would anyone know of a way to use chroot or something > similar to allow any user to have any number of virtual environments > that use apt-get to install stuff and fall-back to the system if > something is not installed in the virtualenv ? -- Yaroslav O. Halchenko Postdoctoral Fellow, Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences Dartmouth College, 419 Moore Hall, Hinman Box 6207, Hanover, NH 03755 Phone: +1 (603) 646-9834 Fax: +1 (603) 646-1419 WWW: http://www.linkedin.com/in/yarik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121002125445.gr26...@onerussian.com