On Oct 06, 2015, at 07:00 AM, Robert Collins wrote:

>The things you listed that I help maintain - mock, testtools, etc -
>are *not* OpenStack specific. They existed before OpenStack, and
>likely will exist after. They have other users, particularly mock
>which is very widely used.

I intensely dislike the separation between OS and DPMT, for exactly this
reason.  Too many packages of general use to Python developers is out of reach
of DPMT.  I thought it was mostly a vcs-induced separation, but now I think
it's clear that even after DPMT moves to git, this separation will continue.

The multi-version design of the archive does cause problems.  I outlined a big
thing that I think Ubuntu has that helps reduce the impact of this.  I'm not
sure if the same kind of this would help Debian, whether it would be feasible,
or even acceptable by the majority of Debian developers.

I really think we need to be finding ways to *reduce* the separation between
OS and DPMT.  One of the things I hope will happen after git migration is
subsuming as much as possible from zope-pkg into DPMT since again, there are a
lot of general interest packages in that namespace.

>Its entirely reasonable to say that known reverse dependencies should
>be considered when upgrading packages, but that is in no way OpenStack
>specific - and the release schedule of all of the things you listed is
>entirely independent of OpenStack.
>Its one of the defects of the single-version design of the archive
>that we have this uncontrolled use of new releases of software thats
>put into it, and - well, thats another discussion. We need to live
>with it though.

Right, and observe that it's not feasible to track down *all* reverse
dependencies when updating a single package.  That's part of why -proposed
migration is so nice, an automated system does that tracking for you.

>So I'm +1 on "Check reverse deps aren't significantly broken before
>uploading to unstable" as a general principle, not as an OpenStack
>specific thing.

+1 also, but it's always going to be a spot check for sanity so things will
fall through the cracks.  Until we get something like the promotion tests, we
just have to commit ourselves to being diligent within reason before
uploading, and responsible to help fix breakages after they're discovered.


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