On 9/26/2013 12:34 PM, Doug wrote: > On 09/26/2013 01:05 AM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: >> On 9/25/2013 12:52 PM, Catherine Gramze wrote: >>> >>> On Sep 25, 2013, at 12:52 AM, Stan Hoeppner <s...@hardwarefreak.com> wrote: >>> > > /very large snip/ > > I just left this final section to illustrate the tome of the whole thing: >> >> The socket vs upgrade concern is not valid. It will be at least 10 >> years before desktop applications, especially Linux apps, are >> sufficiently threaded to take advantage of today's 4 core CPUs, let >> alone 6/8 cores. New hardware doesn't make old hardware obsolete. New >> software does. There are many people, including myself, who would say >> this applies even to dual core CPUs. And in fact, at the rate of >> desktop software development today, WRT threads, one is better off >> purchasing a higher clocked dual core CPU with lots of cache than a quad >> core model at a lower clock, especially given power consumption. >> >> Worrying about which future CPU will fit in your mobo socket is a waste >> of brain cycles. It's irrelevant. By the time you *need* to upgrade, >> you'll want newer faster DRAM, etc. So you'll end up replacing the >> board, CPU, and memory, as people have been doing for some years >> already. Oh, add to that the fact that AMD and Intel keep changing >> sockets to accelerate this trend. The entire industry is better off >> when people keep buying new hardware, obviously, even if the consumers >> aren't. >> > > Stan, I think the advice you've given Catherine will be useful to a lot > of folks who read this list. Particularly in regard to ram usage and > power supply size.
DRAM has trended very cheap for a while, though it's starting to go back up a little. Due to price many people have been buying more than they need, simply because they can, at least here in The States. And because it's been so cheap big box vendors have been using DRAM capacity as a selling point. So when people see most if not all retails desktop PCs shipping with 6GB or more RAM, they are conditioned to believe that's the "new minimum" that everyone should have. This is of course folly. The multi-core issue is of greater importance as CPUs typically cost much more than a couple of DIMMs. The overwhelming majority of people will never make use of 4 cores, let alone all the cycles of two cores. Ever time I see someone say they're going to buy a quad core CPU I cringe, and usually just bite my tongue. Many people simply don't want to know the truth. Buying 4 instead of 2 makes them "feel" better about the purchase, and that's what counts, I guess... > I have heard, however, that the _make_ of power supply may be important, > as some cheapies may not hold up. You might comment on that, and if > that's correct, possibly recommend a name or two. So much I can say WRT PSU purchasing. I'll try to be brief (and fail), but complete. When it comes to desktop PC power supplies brand has little to do with reliability/longevity, but it definitely has influence on price, and sometimes, but not always, a better warranty experience if you have to return one. The design of DC-DC switching power supplies hasn't changed much in 30+ years. It's a known science. The only thing that changes regularly is the cost, and sometimes quality, of components, due to the drive to reduce production cost and increase margins. And this is where you run into problems. These may include using low quality ICs, caps, assembly processes, etc, and/or may include skimping on testing during Q.C. A bad batch of components can bite any vendor in the butt. Sometimes good QC can catch this, sometimes it can't. My advice? Ignore brand. Go to your favorite retail/wholesale website. Plug in the power rating and price range you're interested in. Read the reviews of the units. Yes, read them. Don't rely strictly on the number of stars, eggs, etc. One bad review by a novice builder who burns up his system, or one who gives 1/5 because the cables are too short for his case, or just doesn't know what he's doing, can ruin a rating, and cause you to skip over a perfectly good supply. Here's an example: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817103514 The guy who gave 1 egg didn't buy the unit from Newegg but from an Expo. His PSU may not even be the SPI unit he's writing the review for. He can't figure out how to plug in the Molex connector, which is a standard all mobos and PSUs adhere to. He's an idiot. So you discard this review and his 1/5 rating. That makes this unit a 5/5 instead of a 3/5. Not the best example as there are only 2 reviews, and you should never rely on a single positive review. But you get the idea what to look out for in this regard. Following, however, is the review that makes you walk away from a particular unit: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817103089 SPI is one of the top 5 quality PSU manufacturers and has been for over 15 years. They contract manufacture for some of the big box PC names as well as sell under their own. Their current top model of the latter category is available at Newegg for $210 (yikes, for a desktop PSU?!). It failed on two experienced builders, both verified purchasers, who posted the only two reviews, giving it a true 1/5 rating. Both failed at 3 months during normal operation. This tells us a common component failed in both units. SPI obviously received a batch of marginal components from a supplier and the deficiency wasn't detected during QC. The design is not faulty, nor the QC. Their other units all rate a true 4-5/5. They likely simply received a bad batch of components used in this model. Note what I said up above about even top manufacturers getting burned by faulty components. This is exactly why you should not rely on a brand name alone when making a PSU purchase, or any purchase really. No one "in the know" expects a $200 SPI unit to fail, ever, or any $200 PSU for that matter. In this price range quality/longevity *should* be an absolute. Read the reviews. Ignore brand. The last standalone PSU I purchased was this $20 480W (peak) generic unit branded as "Sunbeam": http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817709010 I rebuilt my workstation after a mobo failure and replaced the PSU for good measure. This Sunbeam was cheap. The ~100 reviews I read of the 200+ were mostly positive, and the failures reported coincided with standard failure rates. It has been running flawlessly for 2 years 1 month. The old PSU had about 8 years on it. It was a 350W generic unit branded "Qmax", made in China. Still works. It came in the mid tower case I purchased in 2003. $35 for case with PSU, so it was a very cheap PSU. However, so people don't get the idea that any arbitrary cheap PSU will run for 8+ years, the following needs to be noted. I buy the cheapest desktop PSUs I can find that have decent reviews. However, before installation I open 'em up and remove the junk stock 80mm low RPM "quiet" sleeve bearing fan and install a faster spinning yet still pretty quiet NMB ball bearing unit. I bought some in bulk on a closeout sale a decade ago. NMB is one of the top 4 quality DC axial fan manufacturers, along with Sanyo Denki, Nidec, and Delta. I've probably mentioned this on list before. Replacing the crappy stock fan with a quality long life model contributed the the 8+ year life of the last cheap PSU. These NMBs last forever. Instead of grabbing a new one from my stock I removed the unit from the old PSU, cleaned it with a toothbrush and compressed air (from my shop compressor, not the canned junk), and dropped it in. Before it's done this NMB may end up with 15 or more years on it. It already has 10, only 5 to go. I have other NMBs and Nidecs with over 10 years on them. Keep em clean and they're like the Energizer bunny. > An excellent presentation. I have put it in my "saved" file. Thanks. Maybe this one will be as informative. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52455735.70...@hardwarefreak.com