Re: [Declude.JunkMail] [139-0B9B7BC7-18FF] Declude not inserting headers and Marking

[Matt]

Sandy, I don't want to have a flame war here, but I do want to encourage discussions that are beneficial to both myself and the community at large. The Declude list is frequented by many non-Declude users for the very reason that it isn't just simply a support group for a product (even if it was originally designed to be that), it has instead become a forum for exchanging valuable information, sometimes even reaching beyond spam and virus prevention. I am the person that brought up Alligate, and I did so in response to someone asking me what I am using for a gateway.  I also of course mentioned VamSOFT's ORF, which market's itself as a full fledged anti-spam gateway (but falls far short to Declude).  In fact, you were the person that lead me to ORF, and that was on this list:     http://www.mail-archive.com/declude.junkmail@declude.com/msg16032.html I am very thankful that you did that because I had to have a solution, and I have shared information and scripts with others to be used with ORF, and made several other converts.  Likewise, I wouldn't be staying true to the community spirit if I didn't divulge my appreciation for what Alligate does, and how it is a much better alternative for those of us that absolutely must have an address validating and pre-scanning gateway. In the same light, Declude also competes with IMail's own offering, and Declude definitely favors the SmarterMail implementation due to their much tighter relationship with SmarterTools, yet there is plenty of discussion on the IMail list of Declude, and such discussions have never been banned. Alligate also is the company that publishes the MXRate IP4R test that was most recently discussed last week, and I am aware that Brian and Barry are friendly and have talked occasionally over the past couple of years.  The Alligate Gateway is competitively priced, and designed exclusively as an enhancement to products like IMail/SmarterMail with Declude.  While there are other such solutions out there, nothing lays a hand on it's functionality, and there are some very nice things in beta that will propel it even farther forward.  For Erik, who asked the question that prompted my reply, the latest Alligate Gateway will definitely solve almost all of his issues with malformed spam since it is zombie generated, and the gateway's greylisting support will block pretty much all zombie spam, and regardless of whether or not it normalizes the malformed headers.  From the sounds of things, Declude is going to need some time to rewrite the code that processes the headers, which would be welcomed, but not necessarily timely enough for some in light of current circumstances. If conversations like this are beaten down or censored, this list will cease to be a free (mostly) exchange of expert ideas and opinions, and in turn it will become nothing more than a support list with newbs asking the same questions over and over and over again, and instead of us answering the questions, that would mostly be left to Declude to answer (like the SmarterMail forum) as the experts seek open forums in which to discuss what we do here. I'm not saying that your opinions are without any merit, but they, like mine, are just opinions, and I hope that we all continue to share them.  I have no doubt that you will disagree with some of this, but let's just agree to disagree and spare the list from less productive discussions. Matt Sanford Whiteman wrote: Using other's mailing lists for support and public documentation, ldap, VBS scripts. And free vs. free and both IMHO are equal amounts of spam. IIS SMTP has extremely active newsgroups with Microsoft employees and MVPs watching it closely, and I don't think you will find any _competitive_ spam there (cross-posts about erectile dysfunction are not the issue). There are "equal amounts of spam" *where* and *where*, again? Anyway, the issue was never the sending of spam to private lists, it's your _willing acceptance_ of spam on an _anti-spam_ list. Also, "free vs. free"? Since when? The other product is not a free product; it was spamvertised here as a commercial offering. What kind of spin is going on here? Tarpitting, country blocking and native Win service and about five minutes of my time. Sorry and it wasn't just address validation. Just as I thought, it wasn't just address validation. . . so it's complete apples-and-oranges and an irrelevant comparison (IIS SMTP vs. the other product). Of course, IIS SMTP doesn't have the bells and whistles built into _many_ standalone MTAs (not just this particular other product). Everybody knows that. And most of those MTAs are competitors to IMail/SmarterMail/Declude in some fashion. And yet, oh-so-curiously, every other one of those vendors hasn't seen fit to spam this list. Guess they haven't discovered this free billboard space yet. Unix sendmail is free as well. Wonder why everyone went to Imail. Hmmmm. Are you seriously suggesting that setting up IIS SMTP with address validation vs. setting up the other product was as hard for you as setting up sendmail vs. IMail? Have you ever set up sendmail? Or was it that trying to make IIS SMTP do other things it doesn't do _at all_, even with third-party add-ons, was as hard as setting up sendmail? Well, that'd be quite an understatement, since not being able to perform a function _at all_ is way beyond difficult, no? And another reason that the comparison is irrelevant. This remains an amazing example of selling out the anti-spam community and somehow still getting kudos. --Sandy ------------------------------------ Sanford Whiteman, Chief Technologist Broadleaf Systems, a division of Cypress Integrated Systems, Inc. e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] SpamAssassin plugs into Declude! http://www.imprimia.com/products/software/freeutils/SPAMC32/download/release/ Defuse Dictionary Attacks: Turn Exchange or IMail mailboxes into IMail Aliases! http://www.imprimia.com/products/software/freeutils/exchange2aliases/download/release/ http://www.imprimia.com/products/software/freeutils/ldap2aliases/download/release/ --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.