I don't want to get to deep into a discussion of this, the last time I got into a discussion on GC in non technical, I lost days of my life. However: - Suggesting that I move to prism to get a gc makes as much sense as suggesting that you move to c++ to get a 64 bit compiler - As Phil said "It's horse for courses". In the areas you work in, gc is obviously of no use. In the areas I mostly work in, it would make my life much easier. - Personally I get tired of the "GC = laziness" argument. It's dismissive without any real thought. - I do know how to use reference counted interfaces and smart pointers. I use them for some things. However reference counting doesn't work for circular references without a lot of additional work. Adding to the opf I use would take more time than it would save.
Regards Sean Cross CIO Catalyst Risk Management -----Original Message----- From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jolyon Smith Sent: Wednesday, 17 June 2009 2:28 p.m. To: 'NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List' Subject: Re: [DUG] Embarcadero article I think the vitriol stems from the idea that people believe (and I think rightly) that the sort of garbage collection that people are asking for is largely an all or nothing affair. i.e. if it's added to the language to please those who want GC (but who - for some reason - aren't inclined to simply use a runtime environment provides exactly what they say they want) then that this necessarily pollutes the language for those who feel that Garbage Collection comes at too high a price and is just pandering to the inherent laziness in all of us (myself included - I'd love to be able to think less, but I know that I'd make more mistakes if I did, not less). The distrust of GC as a technology amongst experienced practitioners (as it typically is) of the black arts of software development stems from: - less efficient use of memory (*) - unpredictably distributed performance across application usage (*) - loss of determinism (debugging complexity) (*) GC assumes a vast over supply of RAM and an availability of application idle cycles in which to recover wastefully over-allocated RAM. The beauty of the GC framework (ref counted lifetime managed via interfaces) that Delphi ALREADY OFFERS (!) is that: - as you say with 'D', it's optional :) - it remains deterministic So don't you already have what you want? All you have to do now is use it. :) -- "Smile", they said. "it could be worse!" So I did. And it was. -----Original Message----- From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of Sean Cross Sent: Wednesday, 17 June 2009 14:02 To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: Re: [DUG] Embarcadero article I do use C# where it makes sense. It just doesn't make sense for the sort of shareware and desktop apps I mostly do. I have never understood the fanatical hatred of garbage collection that some Delphi developers have (not aimed at anyone in particular but if you either try discussing gc in non-technical, you will get a large amount of vitriol heading your way). It makes some things much easier, and some things harder. Optional GC such as in D seems reasonable to me, but apparently not to everyone. Regards Sean Cross CIO Catalyst Risk Management -----Original Message----- From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of Phil Scadden Sent: Wednesday, 17 June 2009 1:33 p.m. To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: Re: [DUG] Embarcadero article > Garbage collection is what I really want, but it's a long way down the list of what will ever get added to Delphi :( > Then use C#. I want Delphi as a C++ replacement with as few compromises as possible, not C#. That said, the C# programming model has things I wouldnt mind in the language - data bound objects, decent object inspector and the dynamic interface thingies. Of course, if you are doing 64 bit, would MPI support be too much to ask as well? -- Phil Scadden, Senior Scientist GNS Science Ltd 764 Cumberland St, Private Bag 1930, Dunedin, New Zealand Ph +64 3 4799663, fax +64 3 477 5232 Notice: This email and any attachments are confidential. If received in error please destroy and immediately notify us. Do not copy or disclose the contents. _______________________________________________ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe _______________________________________________ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe _______________________________________________ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe _______________________________________________ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
