I just agree it can't be done in one time, it doesn't, but it's a good way to have feedback anyway ;)
2011/11/24 Charles-H. Schulz <[email protected]> > Oh boy. How many times did we explain we cannot change the interface in one > shot? > > Citrus looks good. But as we explained, if there's no one wrting > specicications for eaxh part of citrus nothing will get done. > > It looks like we need to blog so that people don't get their hopes up. :-/ > > Best, > Charles. > Le 24 nov. 2011 21:44, "Kévin PEIGNOT" <[email protected]> a > écrit : > > > Hy you wan't feedback on Citrus : > > > > > > > http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/citrus-a-libreoffice-interface-for-today/ > > > > This is a good start guys ;) > > > > Kévin > > > > 2011/11/21 alexander.wilms <[email protected]> > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > since I just received Kévins mail, I now took the time to browse Mireks > > > proposals more deeply and I have to agree, that's just what I'd like to > > see > > > :). > > > > > > There are many great things in those drafts, but I especially like are > > the > > > color codes and the command reorganization. In addition to the new > > handling > > > of headers this would make LOs UI much more comfortable to use. > > > > > > Another aspect I'd like to see integrated are those style groups, but > in > > > my opinion a little previw like in Word would be nice, maybe as a > popout > > or > > > that the styles get applied when hovering over each of them. In my > > opinion, > > > there should be two selections though, one for the group style used > (e.g. > > > "My favorite selfmade style") and one for the formatting that gets > > applied > > > (e.g. Heading 1, Table etc.). I'm not sure but maybe you've already > > > adresses this aspect. > > > > > > I generally like the idea of focusing on actual writing and letting the > > > formatting be automated or taken care of, thats why I like the ability > to > > > export them and the new template manager, which could maybe even being > > > integrated with the online repository, just like the fonts. > > > > > > Still, there are some issues like flickering icons when hovering over > > them > > > or flshing black background colors when editing a text in Impress. > Those > > > aren't immediately related to this proposal, but I hope this could be > > > eliminated, too. Or have these issues already been adressed in the > > current > > > development branch? > > > > > > I am personally looking forward to the command reorg, hopefully we can > > > start working this out very soon :) > > > Cheers > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > ---- On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:07:06 +0100 Kévin PEIGNOT & > > > lt;[email protected]> wrote ---- > > > > > > > > > 2011/10/30 Astron <[email protected]> > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > > > a few days ago, Andrew asked for feedback on Mirek's Citrus > > proposal. > > > > So, here, I want to start a thread on what I/we like and what I/we > > > > don't like (about the desktop/laptop proposal), in the hope that > it > > > > helps Mirek to refine his proposal. Please note, I am not a > regular > > > > reader of Mirek's blog and my assumptions are based on the short > > > > descriptions from the wiki, so if anything on this list seems > wrong > > to > > > > you, feel free to correct me. > > > > Here we go, structure is as on Mirek2's wiki page: > > > > > > > To gain time, I choosed to use the same structure. > > > > > > > > > > > * Ellipsis menu: > > > > I like the idea and it looks much better (cleaner) than it does > > > > currently; for executing commands it is also more functional. > > > > Here's what I don't like: that you can customise your toolbar via > > > > drag-and-drop is not made visible at all; for users of > accessibility > > > > solutions there seems to be no way to add or remove something. > > > > > > > I must say I agree with this. It's a great idea. Here a proposal of > > > solution : At the end of the toolbar, after the menu button, menu, > > > integrate an ellement with a "?" button. When a user click on it, a > > pop-up > > > appear with the tip, saying that drag'n-dropping is the way to proceed > > > > > > * Page/slide handles: > > > > I like the idea (so much I opened a bug about it – fdo#38597). > > There's > > > > a lot to discuss, though, before this can be implemented (how it > > > > zooms, how it acts, etc.). Also, the proposal doesn't work at all > > for > > > > Calc (which Mirek explained, he uses so seldomly that he didn't > > > > include it in his proposals). > > > > > > > Honestly I don't really see what is the point there. Do you have a > > > detailled article/page somewhere, I didn't find (I suppose I didn't > > > searched in the right place) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Continuously scrollable slides: > > > > Not a bad idea for the read-only mode. When editing a document, > > > > however, there will sometimes be the case that an image or other > > > > element would overlap into the next slide. What should LibO do > then? > > > > Push the slide further below? Cut the element off in between the > two > > > > slides? I'm sceptical. > > > > > > > I agree, I usually have some parts of my slides that are "out of the > > > slide", sometimes below, because it can be a movable picture that come > > half > > > from the bottom .... SO personally, I think it's a bad idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Add page/slide: > > > > I can see this being very useful in Impress and Draw, but in those > > > > programs, I would probably put this button into the sidebar. > > > > For Writer, it would be similarly useful, but we'd also need more > > > > complexity: it'd need at least a "Add page" and an "Add Section" > > > > button (unless there is any way in which we can make those two > > > > commands the same). > > > > > > > > It's just great as it is in the mock-up. It's simple, and exactly > > > were you > > > need it. But I think that even if this is a great point, It should stay > > in > > > the left insert toolbar too. (some people will search it there I think) > > > > > > > > > *Float bar: > > > > > > > I'm absolutely in ! Then in the case the element you select take all > the > > > screen, maybe putting the in the top of the element : On the right by > > > default, with a button that switch it to the left if you want it there > > (or > > > maybe by "drag and dropping" the float bar from right to left ?). I > don't > > > have time to make a mockup, but if you want one just ask I will try > > during > > > the week-end > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Insert bar: > > > > This is an idea from Ooo 1.0, I think. I'd love to know why it was > > > > abandoned, then, because it probably is a good idea..? > > > > > > > Personally I always use it, and in the left of the screen, just as in > > your > > > proposal. Too useful ! So I don't see why it has been abandonnated. > Maybe > > > it wasn't used enough according the "clic-map". > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Live preview: > > > > > > > If it means updating the whole document I think it's a bad idea (I > > suppose > > > it would need too much resource). But if it's in a "preview box", then, > > I'm > > > in. One think that I don't like today is that in the format toolbar, > the > > > fonts are described by there name, no preview. This is the little start > > of > > > a "live preview". > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Color-coded icons: > > > > > > > Good idea, I think your color scheme proposal is great. Then, I think > we > > > should brainstorm about it : for me, Red means *"Hy, I need attention" > *, > > > so maybe this color shouldn't be used ? > > > > > > More of that, I'm not sure that this is so useful : The icons > concerning > > > text shoud appear only when text is selected, same with images, > videos... > > > what do you think ? > > > > > > PS : Re thinking the thing : I was wrong : you can select zones with > both > > > pictures and audio > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Reduced standard toolbar: > > > > > > > I almost agree, except that I don't understand where you would put > > > print/export in this case ? I personnaly use these two options every > time > > > (I export to PDF every 30 minutes because of problems I had with odt > > files > > > in the past) > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Drop-down buttons: > > > > > > > No special thought. To be honest I don't know if it's a good or bad > idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Sorting out commands: > > > > Good principles, basically, but probably too rough to be usable in > > > > their current form. Point two (no greyed-out buttons) is > > contradictory > > > > to the reasoning found under Reduced standard toolbar (click-able > > > > buttons as indicators). > > > > Also, this is part of the proposal is throwing (useful) > conventions > > > > out of the window: should we really move Cut, Copy and Paste into > > > > completely different menus? > > > > > > > I think the current menus, even if not perfect are great. The Edit menu > > is > > > especially useful I think. Then, if everything in this menu can be > found > > in > > > the floatbar or other places (like text menu when text is selected for > > > copy/cut or insert menu to paste), then, perfect ! > > > > > > > > > * Getting rid of formatting dialogs : > > > > > > > Granted, I am biased here [1], but I don't like interacting with menus > > > > in this way at all, even though that's something Microsoft Office > > > > makes heavy use of. > > > > It is also a huge, huge, huge amount of work for an unclear (to > me) > > > > benefit. Two disadvantages of relying so much on rich menus: > > > > → opening menus to change anything all the time should be pretty > > > annoying > > > > → customising styles is made very hard (we should want people to > use > > > > styles, so they can create more coherent looking documents more > > > > easily!) > > > > > > > Personally, just for me, I think it could be a great idea, because > > > formatting dialogues would still be available to edit a style. Then, a > > lot > > > of people don't use styles AT ALL, and they act directly on the text. > To > > do > > > this, a formatting dialogue seems me easier : you have everything in > the > > > same window, else you must go to the menu for every change (BOLD, > Italic, > > > color, underline....). Except if the major parts (underline, > font/color, > > > bold, italic....) are in the floatbar or elsewhere easily click-able > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Combining navigator and side pane. > > > > I never actually use the Navigator, (I'm probably wrong, I will > try > > to > > > > force me to use it to see. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Simplified Options: > > > > > > > I would say yes, only if the advanced pane is still available : Look at > > > Ubuntu Unity or Gnome Shell (or the whole Gnome 3) : A lot of > complaints > > > is from people who miss options. So don't say we do the simple options > > > dialogue then the advanced one. I think it's better making the simplest > > > one, then once finished redesigning (or not) the advanced one which > could > > > stay the actual one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Rich menus: > > > > > > > I'm totally in. Then, about Ubuntu (I don't know for Mac OSX), look at > > the > > > sound menu : it's an indicator, but it's a menu too and it contains non > > > traditional menus items. So it must be possible to include them in the > > > global menu. I'm sure (really sure) that if we can explain Canonical > the > > > Why and the How (maybe based on a survey), they will help us integrate > > this > > > (I'm not sure, but it seems me there is a Canonical employee who is > > > "dedicated" to LibreOffice integration. More of that, going to an UDS > to > > > discuss it would help a lot. > > > > > > > > > Conclusion : > > > > > > I really really really Love your proposal, it's the exact direction I > > would > > > like to see LibO go : A cleanest UI, using less vertical spacing (just > > for > > > this point I hate the Office ribbons (they look just ridiculous on a > > > netbook or other little screen), with just what we need the most under > > our > > > eyes, every thing else in menus, the whole thing being easily > > configurable > > > (drag and drop, advanced option dialog) to adapt to every one needs, > but > > > with good defaults. Just what I was thinking ! > > > > > > I'm sorry to be so late to answer, and not to take the time to study > > better > > > your proposal (believe me, I would love to have this time), so maybe I > > > mis-understood some parts. DOn't hesitate to say it to me. I will do my > > > best to answer any other questions you could have (it should take less > > time > > > than 5 weeks, I promise :D ). I'm also sorry for my English which is, I > > > know, not really perfect (yet ?), I'm working on this. If you don't > > > understand what I say, just ask, I will try to explain my idea (maybe I > > > just mis-understood your proposal too, so my answer would be stupid and > > out > > > of place, I hope this won't happen too much). > > > > > > Anyway, Thank you Mirek for this great proposal, which is a really > great > > > start point. I hope we will be able to take it far ! > > > > > > Kévin > > > > > > -- > > > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] > > > Problems? > > > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > > > Posting guidelines + more: > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > > > deleted > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] > > > Problems? > > > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > > > Posting guidelines + more: > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > > > deleted > > > > > > > -- > > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] > > Problems? > > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > > deleted > > > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
