Thanks Nadav for the update. Another focus should really be on the community. To be successful, the project needs a wide & diverse community.
We can discuss about some actions to try to build this community, but right now, it's not good enough. Regards JB On 02/10/2018 10:26, Nadav Har Tzvi wrote: > Hey, > I was away for a vacation and had some pressure at my daily job before > that, now all of that has cleared up. Yaniv and I started integration right > before my vacation on the recent re-implementation of the Python SDK and > the PySpark SDK. We work on integration in the level of configuration files > prepared by the leader and pulled by the executor, these files are used to > configure storage, logging and the generation of the Amaterasu runtime. > We are really a few steps away from finishing it. > I expect that if we can put an effort into this in the upcoming weekend, we > can finally close this feature and move on to the next task. > > Cheers, > Nadav > > > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 10:28, Davor Bonaci <da...@apache.org> wrote: > >> Any comments? Anyone? >> >> Option 1: start a vote to retire the podling and move the project into your >> own repository. >> Option 2: keep things as-is for a few months and re-assess. >> >> I'd say Option 2 requires a minimum of 3 people explicitly saying that they >> want to continue trying and contributing. >> >> On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 8:13 PM Davor Bonaci <da...@apache.org> wrote: >> >>> Thanks Yaniv for your comments. >>> >>> - After the release of 0.2.0 the community became very quiet. I think >>>> that at this point in the life of the project it is natural, as we >> all >>>> doing this in our free time and the release was a major effort that >>>> all of >>>> us (after talking to members in the community) had to compensate for >>>> in our >>>> day jobs and families. >>>> With that said, we shouldn't have gone so quiet. I think we can all >>>> agree this is not acceptable for so long (if at all). >>>> >>> >>> Not sure I agree: it is not natural for projects in the Incubator to be >>> quiet. It does happen to projects that are getting obsolete/irrelevant, >>> often after many years as TLPs. The release usually *increases* activity >>> around the project as new users come, ask questions, start contributing, >>> etc. >>> >>> On the other hand, totally fine for people to go quiet. The problem isn't >>> around anybody going quiet, but the fact of nobody new arriving. Is there >>> any evidence of any usage of the release? Anybody hitting any problem? >> Any >>> lack of documentation? Any bugfixes? That's the core of the problem. >>> >>> >>>> - It is very critical at this point to grow the community. Going back >>>> to >>>> my first point, as long as we are such a small community, efforts >> like >>>> releasing a version will set us back, and the last release is a good >>>> example for that danger. >>>> >>> >>> Not sure I agree: releases usually pick up the activity, pick up new >>> users, as new features now make the project more attractive. I don't >> think >>> I've ever seen an argument where "releasing a version sets us back". >>> Especially the *first* one. >>> >>> - Grow the community. BTW I think this is one reason we should >> consider >>>> staying an Apache project, I think that with the release, we should >>>> also >>>> shift some focus to growing the community. This is an issue I see >> other >>>> projects struggling with, this includes TLPs such as Apache Arrow >> (in a >>>> recent thread on their dev list) and I don't think there is one >> answer >>>> on >>>> how to do it, and I spent some time on other lists to see if they >> have >>>> solutions. I think we can do many things to fix this, and it's more >> of >>>> a >>>> trial and error process for most projects. Things we can (and should >>>> start >>>> doing immediately) includes doing more public presentations (and I >>>> have to >>>> give a shout-out @Nadav Har Tzvi <nadavhart...@gmail.com> that >>>> presented >>>> in two conferences recently), write blog posts, and we should all >>>> invest >>>> time in doing so. But one thing we also need to do is actively >> looking >>>> for >>>> more contributors. If anyone here has someone they think is a good >> fit, >>>> let's try to get them onboard. >>>> >>> >>> Outreach (blogs, talks, etc.) can help, but they help you *scale*. I >> think >>> the project hasn't demonstrated early user fit -- and trying to scale >>> before establishing that often doesn't yield results. For example, if you >>> were to throw Amaterasu in front of 1000 people, how many would join the >>> community? If only a few, it is probably a bad idea to do it. (I worry it >>> is less than a few.) >>> >>> The problem is likely with the user fit, and can be solved only by user >>> development -- most of which often happens before scaling, before >> building >>> the community, and before joining the Incubator. >>> >>> It is really, really, really hard to build the community before early >> user >>> fit. >>> >>> I think that the next few months are more about staying in the incubating >>>> or not, it is do-or-die for Amaterasu. We need to fix the situation so I >>>> wouldn't rush in this situation to consider retiring quite yet. >>>> >>> >>> I'm totally fine with leaving things as-is for a few more months. But, I >>> don't think it is realistic to expect changes to the degree necessary to >>> graduate. As a result, I think you can use *your time* better. >>> >>> * * * >>> >>> I'm really sorry to be the messenger of bad news. I don't want to paint >>> Amaterasu (or your work) in any bad way. I do want you and the project to >>> be most successful as possible. >>> >>> Please note that I don't gain anything by driving this conversation. In >>> fact, I lose a lot. Time is a precious resource of everyone -- and I'd >> like >>> to make sure that the time *you* have for the project is spent in a way >>> that is likely to yield results, not trying to achieve various ASF goals >>> that may not achievable. (If this is not obvious now, I trust that over >>> time direct feedback and tough conversations will be appreciated, instead >>> of letting you waste time for something unrealistic -- which is what most >>> people in my shoes would do.) >>> >> > -- Jean-Baptiste Onofré jbono...@apache.org http://blog.nanthrax.net Talend - http://www.talend.com
